From: Cristian Date: Tue Jan 18, 2005 0:58pm Subject: second hand Any Oscor and Orion in second hand there? A friend of mine, with tight budget, wants them. Sorry for re-posting, I'm not sure about my bip@f... Please send a cc to cristianbip@y... Cristian 10648 From: A Grudko Date: Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:11pm Subject: RE: MI5 boss admits bugging Adams -----Original Message----- From: Tech Sec Lab [mailto:tscmteam@o...] > So, maybe, they would explain to me why the Gov would admit to doing something that they didn't actually do....? Diversion? --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.816 / Virus Database: 554 - Release Date: 2004/12/14 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10649 From: James Greenwold Date: Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:43pm Subject: Re: Tetrascanner Advice I have a fine wire kit in the display case. Last used about 1962 in eastern Europe. No insulation but it becomes invisable. -- James Greenwold Bureau Of Techncial Services P.O. Box 191 Chippewa Falls, WI 54729 http://www.tacticalsurveillance.com jlg@t... voice 715-726-1400 Fax 715-726-2354 > From: DEMTEC@a... > Reply-To: TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com > Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:52:25 EST > To: tscm-l@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [TSCM-L] Tetrascanner Advice > > > Many Thanks again for your reply and some excellent ideas. > Simple micro shielded wire does seem difficult to obtain. The best I can do > here in the UK is 1.5mm o/d single screen grey fairly low quality from CPC > [order number CBBR 4177]. > Further to some recent discussions re RFID detection the ELEKTOR ELECTRONICS > MAGAZINE Feb 2005 has printed an excellent article named RFID frenzy and a > project RFID Detector for 13.56 Mhz.I have not had time to assimilate all the > details but seems well worth a look. > The mag has a website _www.elektor-electronics.co.uk_ > (http://www.elektor-electronics.co.uk) > Regards to all Dave > > David McGauley > TSCM [Technical Surveillance and Countermeasures] > Electronic Surveillance and Sweep Specialist > Electrical/Electronics Engineer ex Police > Demtec House > Ormskirk > Lancs L390HF > UK > 01695558544 > 07866206112 > demtec@a..._ www.demtec.co.uk_ (http://www.demtec.co.uk/) > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > =================================================== TSKS > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > 10650 From: savanted1 Date: Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:56am Subject: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment Controversial Domestic Surveillance Powers According to former Republican congressman Bob Barr, now working as a speaker and consultant to organizations such as the American Civil Liberties Union, "The administration has made it clear that they do intend to continue their move to dramatically reduce privacy and constitutional protection for our citizens." He and other civil liberties advocates expect Patriot Act II provisions to resurface piecemeal, such as in the Anti-Terrorism Intelligence Tools Improvement Act of 2003 (HR3179). Bills trying to remedy some of the more invasive provisions of the Patriot Act, such as the Security and Freedom Ensured (SAFE) Act of 2003, are still stuck in the Senate and House respectively. A driver's license provision of the National Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Act, passed before the holiday recess, requires all drivers' licenses to include machine-readable, encoded data by the end of 2006, and gives the secretaries of Transportation and Homeland Security until mid-2006 to define the data. http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,66242,00.html 10651 From: savanted1 Date: Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:57am Subject: Judge Rules Police Can Use GPS to Track Suspect Without Warrant A New York federal court judge, David Hurd, ruled that law enforcement agents who used a Global Positioning System (GPS) to bug a suspect's car without a court order, did not need a court warrant, noting the suspect "had no expectation of privacy in the whereabouts of his vehicle on a public roadway." There is a growing concern by privacy advocates, who are seeing more and more court rulings upholding the law enforcement practice of using GPS to secretly track vehicles without following judicial safeguards protecting privacy rights of an individual. Another concern is the court rulings legitimizing these law enforcement practices will influence the Supreme Court when it is called on to consider the legality of secret GPS tracking. http://news.com.com/Snooping+by+satellite/2100-1028_3-5533560.html 10652 From: G P Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 0:12am Subject: Re: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment This needs to be stopped immediately, they have more than enough power to do whatever they want with the original Patriot Act abomination that flushed the Constitution down the toilet. Bush et al are using their newfound powers to disrupt and destroy the credibility of U.S. citizens that would dare speak out against their corrupt regime and practice the hallowed right of public dissent. Pro se lawsuits directed against Administration officials is likely the only recourse at this point, it's apparent that the vast majority of Congress is being blackmailed at this point. --- savanted1 wrote: > > > > Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to > Augment > Controversial Domestic Surveillance Powers > > > According to former Republican congressman Bob Barr, > now working as a > speaker and consultant to organizations such as the > American Civil > Liberties Union, "The administration has made it > clear that they do > intend to continue their move to dramatically reduce > privacy and > constitutional protection for our citizens." He and > other civil > liberties advocates expect Patriot Act II provisions > to resurface > piecemeal, such as in the Anti-Terrorism > Intelligence Tools > Improvement Act of 2003 (HR3179). Bills trying to > remedy some of the > more invasive provisions of the Patriot Act, such as > the Security and > Freedom Ensured (SAFE) Act of 2003, are still stuck > in the Senate and > House respectively. A driver's license provision of > the National > Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Act, passed before > the holiday > recess, requires all drivers' licenses to include > machine-readable, > encoded data by the end of 2006, and gives the > secretaries of > Transportation and Homeland Security until mid-2006 > to define the > data. > > http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,66242,00.html > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> > In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own > computers. > At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/EpW3eD/3MnJAA/cosFAA/UBhwlB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts > acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a > warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > =================================================== > TSKS > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > 10653 From: G P Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 0:44am Subject: OT: EST/Landmark and NLP in the Bush Administration The Bush Administration is surrounded by EST/Landmark folks, using NLP and other cognitive sciences to manipulate popular opinion and the entire cabinet. The word "reality" and the phrase "creating new realities" is the earmark of Neuro-Linguistic Programming, and for some bizarre reason corporate NLP training is now being offered (at least in Europe and the Far East) in tandem with computer security training. Some links to EST and NLP at the end of this email, it's bad stuff and can easily "reprogram" individuals not educated in detecting the use of NLP in communications. Landmark Education Corporation is the main group that is pushing NLP and Eriksonian-based hypnotics into the mainstream. For example: "Steve Zaffron, Vice President of Development in the Landmark Education Corporation, defines a distinction as an idea which, 'opens a new way of relating to reality because reality is experienced differently for the person realising the distinction.' (Wruck and Eastley, 1997, p 8)." From an article by Ron Suskind in the New York Times: "In the summer of 2002, after I had written an article in Esquire that the White House didn't like about Bush's former communications director, Karen Hughes, I had a meeting with a senior adviser to Bush. He expressed the White House's displeasure, and then he told me something that at the time I didn't fully comprehend -- but which I now believe gets to the very heart of the Bush presidency. The aide said that guys like me were 'in what we call the reality-based community,' which he defined as people who 'believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.' I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. 'That's not the way the world really works anymore,' he continued. 'We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality -- judiciously, as you will -- we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.'" Some info on EST, NLP, and Bandler: http://skepdic.com/neurolin.html More about Bandler and the murder he was acquitted of: http://www.geocities.com/bandlertrial/bandler1.html Info on Landmark: http://www.transformations.net.nz/trancescript/purpose.html 10654 From: Tech Sec Lab Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:34am Subject: RE: Mic Wire Dave In terms of wire quality you get what you pay for, therefore you should be looking at an ultra thin stranded copper cable if anything. If you are looking for ultra covert and the run is not too long you can get a single strand copper wire, bare, and then spray it with a non conductive paint, this means you get a medium that is no larger than a single strand of wire. But for long runs this is not practical. If you have to use long runs and need serious concealment I suggest you use a fibre optic mic. Regards -Ois ********************* Message: 1 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:52:25 EST From: DEMTEC@A... Subject: Tetrascanner Advice Many Thanks again for your reply and some excellent ideas. Simple micro shielded wire does seem difficult to obtain. The best I can do here in the UK is 1.5mm o/d single screen grey fairly low quality from CPC [order number CBBR 4177]. Further to some recent discussions re RFID detection the ELEKTOR ELECTRONICS MAGAZINE Feb 2005 has printed an excellent article named RFID frenzy and a project RFID Detector for 13.56 Mhz.I have not had time to assimilate all the details but seems well worth a look. The mag has a website _www.elektor-electronics.co.uk_ (http://www.elektor-electronics.co.uk) Regards to all Dave David McGauley TSCM [Technical Surveillance and Countermeasures] Electronic Surveillance and Sweep Specialist Electrical/Electronics Engineer ex Police Demtec House Ormskirk Lancs L390HF UK 01695558544 07866206112 demtec@a..._ www.demtec.co.uk_ (http://www.demtec.co.uk/) 10655 From: Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:46am Subject: Re: Mic Wire In a message dated 19/01/2005 12:37:12 GMT Standard Time, tscmteam@o... writes: Dave In terms of wire quality you get what you pay for, therefore you should be looking at an ultra thin stranded copper cable if anything. If you are looking for ultra covert and the run is not too long you can get a single strand copper wire, bare, and then spray it with a non conductive paint, this means you get a medium that is no larger than a single strand of wire. But for long runs this is not practical. If you have to use long runs and need serious concealment I suggest you use a fibre optic mic. Regards -Ois ********************* Message: 1 Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:52:25 EST From: DEMTEC@A... Subject: Tetrascanner Advice Many Thanks again for your reply and some excellent ideas. Simple micro shielded wire does seem difficult to obtain. The best I can do here in the UK is 1.5mm o/d single screen grey fairly low quality from CPC [order number CBBR 4177]. Further to some recent discussions re RFID detection the ELEKTOR ELECTRONICS MAGAZINE Feb 2005 has printed an excellent article named RFID frenzy and a project RFID Detector for 13.56 Mhz.I have not had time to assimilate all the details but seems well worth a look. The mag has a website _www.elektor-electronics.co.uk_ (http://www.elektor-electronics.co.uk) Regards to all Dave David McGauley TSCM [Technical Surveillance and Countermeasures] Electronic Surveillance and Sweep Specialist Electrical/Electronics Engineer ex Police Demtec House Ormskirk Lancs L390HF UK 01695558544 07866206112 demtec@a..._ www.demtec.co.uk_ (http://www.demtec.co.uk/) ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! _Click Here!_ (http://us.click.yahoo.com/EpW3eD/3MnJAA/cosFAA/UBhwlB/TM) --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS Yahoo! Groups Links Many Thanks for your reply Ois I have considered these various methods except the spray the wire option yes feasable for very short runs but still not screened Best Regards Dave David McGauley TSCM [Technical Surveillance and Countermeasures] Electronic Surveillance and Sweep Specialist Electrical/Electronics Engineer ex Police Demtec House Ormskirk Lancs L390HF UK 01695558544 07866206112 demtec@a..._ www.demtec.co.uk_ (http://www.demtec.co.uk/) The manufacture and installation of custom designed covert electronic audio and video devices. Sweep Services - Professional physical and Electronic countermeasures utilising state of the art laboratory radio scanning and detection equipment. Note: Any fellow WAPI and UKPIN members welcome to phone or call in to discuss projects and applications or simply for free advice. Workshop located alongside M58 junc 3. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10656 From: kondrak Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:07am Subject: Sidebar: Fill Your Jump Bag This is prob second nature to all of us, but nice to see it on another source... >http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,98913,00.html > >By Dan Verton >JANUARY 17, 2005 >COMPUTERWORLD > >A "jump bag" is a collection of critical items you might need during >crisis response when an attacker invades your network. It should >contain these items: > >* Tape recorder or minidisk > >* Backup media > >* Binary backup software > >* CDs with statically linked binaries of critical OS executables > >* Forensic software > >* Windows NT and 2000 resource kits > >* Bootable CD-ROMs > >* USB token memory device > >* External hard drive > >* Small hub > >* Patch cables > >* Laptop with dual operating system capability > >* Call list and cell phone > >* Plastic baggies for handling evidence > >* Extra notebooks for taking notes > > > >_________________________________________ >Open Source Vulnerability Database (OSVDB) Everything is Vulnerable - >http://www.osvdb.org/ 10657 From: kondrak Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:30am Subject: Re: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment But the police-state marches on....if theres any impediment to it, they'll undoubtedly nuke some city to use more terror to make people give up their liberty. At 01:12 1/19/2005, you wrote: >This needs to be stopped immediately, they have more >than enough power to do whatever they want with the >original Patriot Act abomination that flushed the >Constitution down the toilet. > >Bush et al are using their newfound powers to disrupt >and destroy the credibility of U.S. citizens that >would dare speak out against their corrupt regime and >practice the hallowed right of public dissent. > >Pro se lawsuits directed against Administration >officials is likely the only recourse at this point, >it's apparent that the vast majority of Congress is >being blackmailed at this point. > >--- savanted1 wrote: > > > > > > > > > Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to > > Augment > > Controversial Domestic Surveillance Powers > > > > > > According to former Republican congressman Bob Barr, > > now working as a > > speaker and consultant to organizations such as the > > American Civil > > Liberties Union, "The administration has made it > > clear that they do > > intend to continue their move to dramatically reduce > > privacy and > > constitutional protection for our citizens." He and > > other civil > > liberties advocates expect Patriot Act II provisions > > to resurface > > piecemeal, such as in the Anti-Terrorism > > Intelligence Tools > > Improvement Act of 2003 (HR3179). Bills trying to > > remedy some of the > > more invasive provisions of the Patriot Act, such as > > the Security and > > Freedom Ensured (SAFE) Act of 2003, are still stuck > > in the Senate and > > House respectively. A driver's license provision of > > the National > > Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Act, passed before > > the holiday > > recess, requires all drivers' licenses to include > > machine-readable, > > encoded data by the end of 2006, and gives the > > secretaries of > > Transportation and Homeland Security until mid-2006 > > to define the > > data. > > > > http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,66242,00.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > >======================================================== > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts > > acquire speed, > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a > > warning. > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > > =================================================== > > TSKS > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >=================================================== TSKS >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > 10658 From: Agent Geiger Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 0:20pm Subject: Re: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment Pro Se lawsuits will only get you laughed out of courts and labeled a kook. If they actually got you somewhere, you'd be killed. --- kondrak wrote: > But the police-state marches on....if theres any > impediment to it, they'll > undoubtedly nuke some city to use more terror to > make people give up their > liberty. > > > At 01:12 1/19/2005, you wrote: > > >This needs to be stopped immediately, they have > more > >than enough power to do whatever they want with the > >original Patriot Act abomination that flushed the > >Constitution down the toilet. > > > >Bush et al are using their newfound powers to > disrupt > >and destroy the credibility of U.S. citizens that > >would dare speak out against their corrupt regime > and > >practice the hallowed right of public dissent. > > > >Pro se lawsuits directed against Administration > >officials is likely the only recourse at this > point, > >it's apparent that the vast majority of Congress is > >being blackmailed at this point. > > > >--- savanted1 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to > > > Augment > > > Controversial Domestic Surveillance Powers > > > > > > > > > According to former Republican congressman Bob > Barr, > > > now working as a > > > speaker and consultant to organizations such as > the > > > American Civil > > > Liberties Union, "The administration has made it > > > clear that they do > > > intend to continue their move to dramatically > reduce > > > privacy and > > > constitutional protection for our citizens." He > and > > > other civil > > > liberties advocates expect Patriot Act II > provisions > > > to resurface > > > piecemeal, such as in the Anti-Terrorism > > > Intelligence Tools > > > Improvement Act of 2003 (HR3179). Bills trying > to > > > remedy some of the > > > more invasive provisions of the Patriot Act, > such as > > > the Security and > > > Freedom Ensured (SAFE) Act of 2003, are still > stuck > > > in the Senate and > > > House respectively. A driver's license > provision of > > > the National > > > Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Act, passed > before > > > the holiday > > > recess, requires all drivers' licenses to > include > > > machine-readable, > > > encoded data by the end of 2006, and gives the > > > secretaries of > > > Transportation and Homeland Security until > mid-2006 > > > to define the > > > data. > > > > > > > http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,66242,00.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > >======================================================== > > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > > "In a multitude of counselors there is > strength" > > > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list > visit: > > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in > motion. > > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts > > > acquire speed, > > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a > > > warning. > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in > motion. > > > > =================================================== > > > TSKS > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >======================================================== > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > "In a multitude of counselors there is > strength" > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list > visit: > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts > acquire speed, > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a > warning. > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > >=================================================== > TSKS > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 10659 From: G P Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:50pm Subject: Re: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment > Pro Se lawsuits will only get you laughed out of > courts and labeled a kook. Interesting opinion, as pro se litigants are held to a much lesser standard of legal review. Going pro se with a defense (or offense) is a significant advantage over professional counsel. >If they actually got you somewhere, you'd be killed. Very interesting. So by retaining professional legal counsel, one is immune to assassination...? Per that logic, we're going about this war in Iraq thing all wrong - we should be sending squadrons of laywers over there to defend our interests ;) The law is the law, period. 2752 people died in the September 11th attacks, but millions have been killed protecting that very same Constitution that has been trampled upon with the Patriot Act and upcoming Patriot Act II legislation. Our elected officials swore to uphold and defend the Constitution, not to rewrite history and laws to suit the military-industrial complex. Regards Greg > > --- kondrak wrote: > > > But the police-state marches on....if theres any > > impediment to it, they'll > > undoubtedly nuke some city to use more terror to > > make people give up their > > liberty. > > > > > > At 01:12 1/19/2005, you wrote: > > > > >This needs to be stopped immediately, they have > > more > > >than enough power to do whatever they want with > the > > >original Patriot Act abomination that flushed the > > >Constitution down the toilet. > > > > > >Bush et al are using their newfound powers to > > disrupt > > >and destroy the credibility of U.S. citizens that > > >would dare speak out against their corrupt regime > > and > > >practice the hallowed right of public dissent. > > > > > >Pro se lawsuits directed against Administration > > >officials is likely the only recourse at this > > point, > > >it's apparent that the vast majority of Congress > is > > >being blackmailed at this point. > > > > > >--- savanted1 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push > to > > > > Augment > > > > Controversial Domestic Surveillance > Powers > > > > > > > > > > > > According to former Republican congressman Bob > > Barr, > > > > now working as a > > > > speaker and consultant to organizations such > as > > the > > > > American Civil > > > > Liberties Union, "The administration has made > it > > > > clear that they do > > > > intend to continue their move to dramatically > > reduce > > > > privacy and > > > > constitutional protection for our citizens." > He > > and > > > > other civil > > > > liberties advocates expect Patriot Act II > > provisions > > > > to resurface > > > > piecemeal, such as in the Anti-Terrorism > > > > Intelligence Tools > > > > Improvement Act of 2003 (HR3179). Bills > trying > > to > > > > remedy some of the > > > > more invasive provisions of the Patriot Act, > > such as > > > > the Security and > > > > Freedom Ensured (SAFE) Act of 2003, are still > > stuck > > > > in the Senate and > > > > House respectively. A driver's license > > provision of > > > > the National > > > > Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Act, passed > > before > > > > the holiday > > > > recess, requires all drivers' licenses to > > include > > > > machine-readable, > > > > encoded data by the end of 2006, and gives the > > > > secretaries of > > > > Transportation and Homeland Security until > > mid-2006 > > > > to define the > > > > data. > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,66242,00.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >======================================================== > > > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing > List > > > > "In a multitude of counselors there is > > strength" > > > > > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list > > visit: > > > > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in > > motion. > > > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that > thoughts > > > > acquire speed, > > > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a > > > > warning. > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in > > motion. > > > > > > > =================================================== > > > > TSKS > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >======================================================== > > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > > "In a multitude of counselors there is > > strength" > > > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list > > visit: > > > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in > motion. > > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts > > acquire speed, > > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a > > warning. > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in > motion. > > > >=================================================== > > TSKS > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn > more. > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> > What would our lives be like without music, dance, > and theater? > Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for > Good! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Tcy2bD/SOnJAA/cosFAA/UBhwlB/TM > === message truncated === 10660 From: Agent Geiger Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:24pm Subject: Re: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment You mistook my previous posting. I am not saying I do not agree with people bringing forth suits and defending themselves(I do it in small claims court all the time). My piont is, that if you try and take on the juggernaut in power, via constitional pro-se means, e.g., tax resisting, rescinding your drivers license and SSN, etc. You in the practical sense, will lose. the judges will either rule against you, or dismiss. All the time, you spend a lot of money, and get little true justice. However, the system remains intact. I am not saying it right. It is the fact. The deck is stacked all the way to the Supreme Court. How in the world can you win in "their" system, by playing by the rules they themselves do not play by? --- G P wrote: > > Pro Se lawsuits will only get you laughed out of > > courts and labeled a kook. > > Interesting opinion, as pro se litigants are held to > a > much lesser standard of legal review. Going pro se > with a defense (or offense) is a significant > advantage > over professional counsel. > > >If they actually got you somewhere, you'd be > killed. > > Very interesting. So by retaining professional > legal > counsel, one is immune to assassination...? Per > that > logic, we're going about this war in Iraq thing all > wrong - we should be sending squadrons of laywers > over > there to defend our interests ;) > > The law is the law, period. 2752 people died in the > September 11th attacks, but millions have been > killed > protecting that very same Constitution that has been > trampled upon with the Patriot Act and upcoming > Patriot Act II legislation. > > Our elected officials swore to uphold and defend the > Constitution, not to rewrite history and laws to > suit > the military-industrial complex. > > Regards > > Greg > > > > > --- kondrak wrote: > > > > > But the police-state marches on....if theres any > > > impediment to it, they'll > > > undoubtedly nuke some city to use more terror to > > > make people give up their > > > liberty. > > > > > > > > > At 01:12 1/19/2005, you wrote: > > > > > > >This needs to be stopped immediately, they have > > > more > > > >than enough power to do whatever they want with > > the > > > >original Patriot Act abomination that flushed > the > > > >Constitution down the toilet. > > > > > > > >Bush et al are using their newfound powers to > > > disrupt > > > >and destroy the credibility of U.S. citizens > that > > > >would dare speak out against their corrupt > regime > > > and > > > >practice the hallowed right of public dissent. > > > > > > > >Pro se lawsuits directed against Administration > > > >officials is likely the only recourse at this > > > point, > > > >it's apparent that the vast majority of > Congress > > is > > > >being blackmailed at this point. > > > > > > > >--- savanted1 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push > > to > > > > > Augment > > > > > Controversial Domestic Surveillance > > Powers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > According to former Republican congressman > Bob > > > Barr, > > > > > now working as a > > > > > speaker and consultant to organizations such > > as > > > the > > > > > American Civil > > > > > Liberties Union, "The administration has > made > > it > > > > > clear that they do > > > > > intend to continue their move to > dramatically > > > reduce > > > > > privacy and > > > > > constitutional protection for our citizens." > > > He > > > and > > > > > other civil > > > > > liberties advocates expect Patriot Act II > > > provisions > > > > > to resurface > > > > > piecemeal, such as in the Anti-Terrorism > > > > > Intelligence Tools > > > > > Improvement Act of 2003 (HR3179). Bills > > trying > > > to > > > > > remedy some of the > > > > > more invasive provisions of the Patriot Act, > > > such as > > > > > the Security and > > > > > Freedom Ensured (SAFE) Act of 2003, are > still > > > stuck > > > > > in the Senate and > > > > > House respectively. A driver's license > > > provision of > > > > > the National > > > > > Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Act, > passed > > > before > > > > > the holiday > > > > > recess, requires all drivers' licenses to > > > include > > > > > machine-readable, > > > > > encoded data by the end of 2006, and gives > the > > > > > secretaries of > > > > > Transportation and Homeland Security until > > > mid-2006 > > > > > to define the > > > > > data. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,66242,00.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >======================================================== > > > > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing > > List > > > > > "In a multitude of counselors there is > > > strength" > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list > > > visit: > > > > > > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > > > > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in > > > motion. > > > > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that > > thoughts > > > > > acquire speed, > > > > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a > > > > > warning. > > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in > > > motion. > > > > > > > > > > > =================================================== > > > > > TSKS > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com 10661 From: G P Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:49pm Subject: Seriously OT: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment --- Agent Geiger wrote: > You mistook my previous posting. > > I am not saying I do not agree with people bringing > forth suits and defending themselves(I do it in > small claims court all the time). My piont is, that > if you try and take on the juggernaut in power, via > constitional pro-se means, e.g., tax resisting, > rescinding your drivers license and SSN, etc. You > in the practical sense, will lose. You are confusing self-representation with the so-called "Common Law Court" movement. Pro se representation, or defense "In Pro Per" (latin translation of "for oneself) finds very strong protections from the 6th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The "Common Law Court" movement is what you are speaking of, and has no bearing on representing oneself in a civil or criminal proceeding. > the judges will either rule against you, or dismiss. That's what the appellate system is for. Any judge that openly defies the law, then is overturned on appeal loses serious credibility, especially if overturned by a pro se litigant. > All the time, you spend a lot of money, and get > little true justice. However, the system remains > intact. Your cost is your time. Filing a federal lawsuit costs $250 and the cost of serving the Complaint. > I am not saying it right. It is the fact. The deck > is stacked all the way to the Supreme Court. How in > the world can you win in "their" system, by playing > by the rules they themselves do not play by? Less than 2% of any case goes to trial, or is "litigated" in the common sense. Laws are laws are laws. If 50% of the U.S. was truly split over the recent election, then you can guarantee close to 50% of the judges on the bench right now are against the power grab exhibited by this Administration. A sympathetic judge is only an appeal or two away... Cheers Greg > > > --- G P wrote: > > > > Pro Se lawsuits will only get you laughed out of > > > courts and labeled a kook. > > > > Interesting opinion, as pro se litigants are held > to > > a > > much lesser standard of legal review. Going pro > se > > with a defense (or offense) is a significant > > advantage > > over professional counsel. > > > > >If they actually got you somewhere, you'd be > > killed. > > > > Very interesting. So by retaining professional > > legal > > counsel, one is immune to assassination...? Per > > that > > logic, we're going about this war in Iraq thing > all > > wrong - we should be sending squadrons of laywers > > over > > there to defend our interests ;) > > > > The law is the law, period. 2752 people died in > the > > September 11th attacks, but millions have been > > killed > > protecting that very same Constitution that has > been > > trampled upon with the Patriot Act and upcoming > > Patriot Act II legislation. > > > > Our elected officials swore to uphold and defend > the > > Constitution, not to rewrite history and laws to > > suit > > the military-industrial complex. > > > > Regards > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > --- kondrak wrote: > > > > > > > But the police-state marches on....if theres > any > > > > impediment to it, they'll > > > > undoubtedly nuke some city to use more terror > to > > > > make people give up their > > > > liberty. > > > > > > > > > > > > At 01:12 1/19/2005, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >This needs to be stopped immediately, they > have > > > > more > > > > >than enough power to do whatever they want > with > > > the > > > > >original Patriot Act abomination that flushed > > the > > > > >Constitution down the toilet. > > > > > > > > > >Bush et al are using their newfound powers to > > > > disrupt > > > > >and destroy the credibility of U.S. citizens > > that > > > > >would dare speak out against their corrupt > > regime > > > > and > > > > >practice the hallowed right of public > dissent. > > > > > > > > > >Pro se lawsuits directed against > Administration > > > > >officials is likely the only recourse at this > > > > point, > > > > >it's apparent that the vast majority of > > Congress > > > is > > > > >being blackmailed at this point. > > > > > > > > > >--- savanted1 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Privacy Activists Brace for White House > Push > > > to > > > > > > Augment > > > > > > Controversial Domestic Surveillance > > > Powers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > According to former Republican congressman > > Bob > > > > Barr, > > > > > > now working as a > > > > > > speaker and consultant to organizations > such > > > as > > > > the > > > > > > American Civil > > > > > > Liberties Union, "The administration has > > made > > > it > > > > > > clear that they do > > > > > > intend to continue their move to > > dramatically > > > > reduce > > > > > > privacy and > > > > > > constitutional protection for our > citizens." > > > > > He > > > > and > > > > > > other civil > > > > > > liberties advocates expect Patriot Act II > > > > provisions > > > > > > to resurface > > > > > > piecemeal, such as in the Anti-Terrorism > > > > > > Intelligence Tools > > > > > > Improvement Act of 2003 (HR3179). Bills > > > trying > > > > to > > > > > > remedy some of the > > > > > > more invasive provisions of the Patriot > Act, > > > > such as > > > > > > the Security and > > > > > > Freedom Ensured (SAFE) Act of 2003, are > > still > > > > stuck > > > > > > in the Senate and > > > > > > House respectively. A driver's license > > > > provision of > > > > > > the National > > > > > > Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Act, > > passed > > > > before > > > > > > the holiday > > > > > > recess, requires all drivers' licenses to > > > > include > > > > > > machine-readable, > > > > > > encoded data by the end of 2006, and gives > > the > > > > > > secretaries of > > > > > > Transportation and Homeland Security until > > > > mid-2006 > > > > > > to define the > > > > > > data. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,66242,00.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups > > Sponsor > > > > > > > === message truncated === 10662 From: Leanardo Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:30am Subject: Off-topic Question re: Cellular system capacity Can anyone tell me what the "typical" call load of a single cellular base station? What I mean by call load is the total number of concurrent connections the base can handle at one time before a cellular user receives a network busy signal. I realize there are a number of variables, but I am just looking for a ball-park answer. Thanks, Bruce 10663 From: Nalesnik, Matthew Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 0:15pm Subject: RE: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment Does that mean you conspire to believe they crashed planes into the WTC and Pentagon, and PA, just to make provisions to take our liberties away? That's a strong accusation. If true, obviously it's time for revolution, and a new government (not that the current tax situation doesn't call for that anyway... different topic), but certainly NOT a Liberal one, cuz that's just a step towards Socialism, which is a step towards Communism, and if you think that your liberties are being trampled on now... But if it's not true - which I don't think it is - then we need to focus on real enemies... like the UN. -----Original Message----- From: kondrak [mailto:kondrak@s...] >>But the police-state marches on....if theres any impediment to it, they'll >>undoubtedly nuke some city to use more terror to make people give up their >>liberty. At 01:12 1/19/2005, you wrote: >This needs to be stopped immediately, they have more >than enough power to do whatever they want with the >original Patriot Act abomination that flushed the >Constitution down the toilet. > >Bush et al are using their newfound powers to disrupt >and destroy the credibility of U.S. citizens that >would dare speak out against their corrupt regime and >practice the hallowed right of public dissent. > >Pro se lawsuits directed against Administration >officials is likely the only recourse at this point, >it's apparent that the vast majority of Congress is >being blackmailed at this point. > >--- savanted1 wrote: > > > > > > > > > Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to > > Augment > > Controversial Domestic Surveillance Powers > > > > > > According to former Republican congressman Bob Barr, > > now working as a > > speaker and consultant to organizations such as the > > American Civil > > Liberties Union, "The administration has made it > > clear that they do > > intend to continue their move to dramatically reduce > > privacy and > > constitutional protection for our citizens." He and > > other civil > > liberties advocates expect Patriot Act II provisions > > to resurface > > piecemeal, such as in the Anti-Terrorism > > Intelligence Tools > > Improvement Act of 2003 (HR3179). Bills trying to > > remedy some of the > > more invasive provisions of the Patriot Act, such as > > the Security and > > Freedom Ensured (SAFE) Act of 2003, are still stuck > > in the Senate and > > House respectively. A driver's license provision of > > the National > > Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Act, passed before > > the holiday > > recess, requires all drivers' licenses to include > > machine-readable, > > encoded data by the end of 2006, and gives the > > secretaries of > > Transportation and Homeland Security until mid-2006 > > to define the > > data. > > > > http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,66242,00.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > >======================================================== > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts > > acquire speed, > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a > > warning. > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > > =================================================== > > TSKS > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >=================================================== TSKS >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TSCM-L/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10664 From: Bill & Tracy McDonnell Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:33pm Subject: Re: Seriously OT: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment It is very imprudent to deprive America of any of her privileges. If her commerce and friendship are of any importance to you, they are to be had on no other terms than leaving her in the full enjoyment of her rights." --Benjamin Franklin I found this and it fits perfectly with the Rights we have being taken away. I wrote an article not long ago about how we are no longer a Democracy. The U.S Reps. and Senators took it personal. They don't represent the constituents, they represent their investors, and the oil and pharmaceutical companies. You would be surprised the letters I received over the article! Bigdaddy www.bigdaddydanes.com ----- Original Message ----- From: G P To: TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 6:49 PM Subject: Seriously OT: [TSCM-L] Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment --- Agent Geiger wrote: > You mistook my previous posting. > > I am not saying I do not agree with people bringing > forth suits and defending themselves(I do it in > small claims court all the time). My piont is, that > if you try and take on the juggernaut in power, via > constitional pro-se means, e.g., tax resisting, > rescinding your drivers license and SSN, etc. You > in the practical sense, will lose. You are confusing self-representation with the so-called "Common Law Court" movement. Pro se representation, or defense "In Pro Per" (latin translation of "for oneself) finds very strong protections from the 6th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The "Common Law Court" movement is what you are speaking of, and has no bearing on representing oneself in a civil or criminal proceeding. > the judges will either rule against you, or dismiss. That's what the appellate system is for. Any judge that openly defies the law, then is overturned on appeal loses serious credibility, especially if overturned by a pro se litigant. > All the time, you spend a lot of money, and get > little true justice. However, the system remains > intact. Your cost is your time. Filing a federal lawsuit costs $250 and the cost of serving the Complaint. > I am not saying it right. It is the fact. The deck > is stacked all the way to the Supreme Court. How in > the world can you win in "their" system, by playing > by the rules they themselves do not play by? Less than 2% of any case goes to trial, or is "litigated" in the common sense. Laws are laws are laws. If 50% of the U.S. was truly split over the recent election, then you can guarantee close to 50% of the judges on the bench right now are against the power grab exhibited by this Administration. A sympathetic judge is only an appeal or two away... Cheers Greg > > > --- G P wrote: > > > > Pro Se lawsuits will only get you laughed out of > > > courts and labeled a kook. > > > > Interesting opinion, as pro se litigants are held > to > > a > > much lesser standard of legal review. Going pro > se > > with a defense (or offense) is a significant > > advantage > > over professional counsel. > > > > >If they actually got you somewhere, you'd be > > killed. > > > > Very interesting. So by retaining professional > > legal > > counsel, one is immune to assassination...? Per > > that > > logic, we're going about this war in Iraq thing > all > > wrong - we should be sending squadrons of laywers > > over > > there to defend our interests ;) > > > > The law is the law, period. 2752 people died in > the > > September 11th attacks, but millions have been > > killed > > protecting that very same Constitution that has > been > > trampled upon with the Patriot Act and upcoming > > Patriot Act II legislation. > > > > Our elected officials swore to uphold and defend > the > > Constitution, not to rewrite history and laws to > > suit > > the military-industrial complex. > > > > Regards > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > --- kondrak wrote: > > > > > > > But the police-state marches on....if theres > any > > > > impediment to it, they'll > > > > undoubtedly nuke some city to use more terror > to > > > > make people give up their > > > > liberty. > > > > > > > > > > > > At 01:12 1/19/2005, you wrote: > > > > > > > > >This needs to be stopped immediately, they > have > > > > more > > > > >than enough power to do whatever they want > with > > > the > > > > >original Patriot Act abomination that flushed > > the > > > > >Constitution down the toilet. > > > > > > > > > >Bush et al are using their newfound powers to > > > > disrupt > > > > >and destroy the credibility of U.S. citizens > > that > > > > >would dare speak out against their corrupt > > regime > > > > and > > > > >practice the hallowed right of public > dissent. > > > > > > > > > >Pro se lawsuits directed against > Administration > > > > >officials is likely the only recourse at this > > > > point, > > > > >it's apparent that the vast majority of > > Congress > > > is > > > > >being blackmailed at this point. > > > > > > > > > >--- savanted1 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Privacy Activists Brace for White House > Push > > > to > > > > > > Augment > > > > > > Controversial Domestic Surveillance > > > Powers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > According to former Republican congressman > > Bob > > > > Barr, > > > > > > now working as a > > > > > > speaker and consultant to organizations > such > > > as > > > > the > > > > > > American Civil > > > > > > Liberties Union, "The administration has > > made > > > it > > > > > > clear that they do > > > > > > intend to continue their move to > > dramatically > > > > reduce > > > > > > privacy and > > > > > > constitutional protection for our > citizens." > > > > > He > > > > and > > > > > > other civil > > > > > > liberties advocates expect Patriot Act II > > > > provisions > > > > > > to resurface > > > > > > piecemeal, such as in the Anti-Terrorism > > > > > > Intelligence Tools > > > > > > Improvement Act of 2003 (HR3179). Bills > > > trying > > > > to > > > > > > remedy some of the > > > > > > more invasive provisions of the Patriot > Act, > > > > such as > > > > > > the Security and > > > > > > Freedom Ensured (SAFE) Act of 2003, are > > still > > > > stuck > > > > > > in the Senate and > > > > > > House respectively. A driver's license > > > > provision of > > > > > > the National > > > > > > Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Act, > > passed > > > > before > > > > > > the holiday > > > > > > recess, requires all drivers' licenses to > > > > include > > > > > > machine-readable, > > > > > > encoded data by the end of 2006, and gives > > the > > > > > > secretaries of > > > > > > Transportation and Homeland Security until > > > > mid-2006 > > > > > > to define the > > > > > > data. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,66242,00.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups > > Sponsor > > > > > > > === message truncated === ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TSCM-L/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10665 From: Agent Geiger Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:05pm Subject: RE: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment I never said anything about planes did I? You are making incorrect inferences. --- "Nalesnik, Matthew" wrote: > > Does that mean you conspire to believe they crashed > planes into the WTC and Pentagon, and PA, just to > make provisions to take our liberties away? > That's a strong accusation. If true, obviously it's > time for revolution, and a new government (not that > the current tax situation doesn't call for that > anyway... different topic), but certainly NOT a > Liberal one, cuz that's just a step towards > Socialism, which is a step towards Communism, and if > you think that your liberties are being trampled on > now... > But if it's not true - which I don't think it is - > then we need to focus on real enemies... like the > UN. > > -----Original Message----- > From: kondrak [mailto:kondrak@s...] > > > >>But the police-state marches on....if theres any > impediment to it, they'll > >>undoubtedly nuke some city to use more terror to > make people give up their > >>liberty. > > > At 01:12 1/19/2005, you wrote: > > >This needs to be stopped immediately, they have > more > >than enough power to do whatever they want with the > >original Patriot Act abomination that flushed the > >Constitution down the toilet. > > > >Bush et al are using their newfound powers to > disrupt > >and destroy the credibility of U.S. citizens that > >would dare speak out against their corrupt regime > and > >practice the hallowed right of public dissent. > > > >Pro se lawsuits directed against Administration > >officials is likely the only recourse at this > point, > >it's apparent that the vast majority of Congress is > >being blackmailed at this point. > > > >--- savanted1 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to > > > Augment > > > Controversial Domestic Surveillance Powers > > > > > > > > > According to former Republican congressman Bob > Barr, > > > now working as a > > > speaker and consultant to organizations such as > the > > > American Civil > > > Liberties Union, "The administration has made it > > > clear that they do > > > intend to continue their move to dramatically > reduce > > > privacy and > > > constitutional protection for our citizens." He > and > > > other civil > > > liberties advocates expect Patriot Act II > provisions > > > to resurface > > > piecemeal, such as in the Anti-Terrorism > > > Intelligence Tools > > > Improvement Act of 2003 (HR3179). Bills trying > to > > > remedy some of the > > > more invasive provisions of the Patriot Act, > such as > > > the Security and > > > Freedom Ensured (SAFE) Act of 2003, are still > stuck > > > in the Senate and > > > House respectively. A driver's license > provision of > > > the National > > > Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Act, passed > before > > > the holiday > > > recess, requires all drivers' licenses to > include > > > machine-readable, > > > encoded data by the end of 2006, and gives the > > > secretaries of > > > Transportation and Homeland Security until > mid-2006 > > > to define the > > > data. > > > > > > > http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,66242,00.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > >======================================================== > > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > > "In a multitude of counselors there is > strength" > > > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list > visit: > > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in > motion. > > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts > > > acquire speed, > > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a > > > warning. > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in > motion. > > > > =================================================== > > > TSKS > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >======================================================== > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > "In a multitude of counselors there is > strength" > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list > visit: > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts > acquire speed, > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a > warning. > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > >=================================================== > TSKS > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts > acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > =================================================== > TSKS > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > === message truncated === __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 10666 From: G P Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:54pm Subject: RE: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment --- "Nalesnik, Matthew" wrote: > Does that mean you conspire to believe they crashed > planes into the WTC and Pentagon, and PA, just to > make provisions to take our liberties away? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that our interventionist foreign policy is to blame for the attacks. > then we need to focus on real enemies... like the > UN. Yep. This Iraq war is nothing but U.N. puppetry, and U.S. tax dollars have been enforcing U.N. mandates for decades. Bankruptcy is the preferred tactic for hostile takeover, insurmountable debt is the perfect leverage for a coup. Countries can be purposely bankrupted, just like companies routinely are. "...where the rule of law-governs the conduct of nations...in which a credible United Nations can use its peacekeeping role to fulfill the promise and vision of the UN's founders." -- George H. W. Bush, January 16, 1991, speech regarding hostilities with Iraq > > -----Original Message----- > From: kondrak [mailto:kondrak@s...] > > > >>But the police-state marches on....if theres any > impediment to it, they'll > >>undoubtedly nuke some city to use more terror to > make people give up their > >>liberty. > > > At 01:12 1/19/2005, you wrote: > > >This needs to be stopped immediately, they have > more > >than enough power to do whatever they want with the > >original Patriot Act abomination that flushed the > >Constitution down the toilet. > > > >Bush et al are using their newfound powers to > disrupt > >and destroy the credibility of U.S. citizens that > >would dare speak out against their corrupt regime > and > >practice the hallowed right of public dissent. > > > >Pro se lawsuits directed against Administration > >officials is likely the only recourse at this > point, > >it's apparent that the vast majority of Congress is > >being blackmailed at this point. > > > >--- savanted1 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to > > > Augment > > > Controversial Domestic Surveillance Powers > > > > > > > > > According to former Republican congressman Bob > Barr, > > > now working as a > > > speaker and consultant to organizations such as > the > > > American Civil > > > Liberties Union, "The administration has made it > > > clear that they do > > > intend to continue their move to dramatically > reduce > > > privacy and > > > constitutional protection for our citizens." He > and > > > other civil > > > liberties advocates expect Patriot Act II > provisions > > > to resurface > > > piecemeal, such as in the Anti-Terrorism > > > Intelligence Tools > > > Improvement Act of 2003 (HR3179). Bills trying > to > > > remedy some of the > > > more invasive provisions of the Patriot Act, > such as > > > the Security and > > > Freedom Ensured (SAFE) Act of 2003, are still > stuck > > > in the Senate and > > > House respectively. A driver's license > provision of > > > the National > > > Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Act, passed > before > > > the holiday > > > recess, requires all drivers' licenses to > include > > > machine-readable, > > > encoded data by the end of 2006, and gives the > > > secretaries of > > > Transportation and Homeland Security until > mid-2006 > > > to define the > > > data. > > > > > > > http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,66242,00.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > >======================================================== > > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > > "In a multitude of counselors there is > strength" > > > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list > visit: > > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in > motion. > > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts > > > acquire speed, > > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a > > > warning. > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in > motion. > > > > =================================================== > > > TSKS > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >======================================================== > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > "In a multitude of counselors there is > strength" > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list > visit: > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts > acquire speed, > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a > warning. > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > >=================================================== > TSKS > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts > acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > =================================================== > TSKS > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > === message truncated === 10667 From: G P Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:00pm Subject: Re: Seriously OT: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment Good for you! Where was the article published? The U.S. Reps and Senators SHOULD take it personally, they are guilty of high treason and have shredded the Constitution that they swore to uphold, respect, and protect. Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) is one of the few honest members left. --- Bill & Tracy McDonnell wrote: > It is very imprudent to deprive America of any of > her privileges. If her commerce and friendship are > of any importance to you, they are to be had on no > other terms than leaving her in the full enjoyment > of her rights." --Benjamin Franklin > I found this and it fits perfectly with the Rights > we have being taken away. I wrote an article not > long ago about how we are no longer a Democracy. The > U.S Reps. and Senators took it personal. They don't > represent the constituents, they represent their > investors, and the oil and pharmaceutical companies. > You would be surprised the letters I received over > the article! > > Bigdaddy > www.bigdaddydanes.com 10668 From: Agent Geiger Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:24pm Subject: RE: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment --- G P wrote: > --- "Nalesnik, Matthew" > wrote: > > > Does that mean you conspire to believe they > crashed > > planes into the WTC and Pentagon, and PA, just to > > make provisions to take our liberties away? > > Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that > our > interventionist foreign policy is to blame for the > attacks. > > > then we need to focus on real enemies... like the > > UN. > > Yep. This Iraq war is nothing but U.N. puppetry, > and > U.S. tax dollars have been enforcing U.N. mandates > for > decades. Bankruptcy is the preferred tactic for > hostile takeover, insurmountable debt is the perfect > leverage for a coup. Countries can be purposely > bankrupted, just like companies routinely are. What about all the U.N. resolutions against Israel? They have been breaking those for years, but the U.S. does not enforce them? > "...where the rule of law-governs the conduct of > nations...in which a credible United Nations can use > its peacekeeping role to fulfill the promise and > vision of the UN's founders." -- George H. W. Bush, > January 16, 1991, speech regarding hostilities with > Iraq > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: kondrak [mailto:kondrak@s...] > > > > > > >>But the police-state marches on....if theres any > > impediment to it, they'll > > >>undoubtedly nuke some city to use more terror to > > make people give up their > > >>liberty. > > > > > > At 01:12 1/19/2005, you wrote: > > > > >This needs to be stopped immediately, they have > > more > > >than enough power to do whatever they want with > the > > >original Patriot Act abomination that flushed the > > >Constitution down the toilet. > > > > > >Bush et al are using their newfound powers to > > disrupt > > >and destroy the credibility of U.S. citizens that > > >would dare speak out against their corrupt regime > > and > > >practice the hallowed right of public dissent. > > > > > >Pro se lawsuits directed against Administration > > >officials is likely the only recourse at this > > point, > > >it's apparent that the vast majority of Congress > is > > >being blackmailed at this point. > > > > > >--- savanted1 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push > to > > > > Augment > > > > Controversial Domestic Surveillance > Powers > > > > > > > > > > > > According to former Republican congressman Bob > > Barr, > > > > now working as a > > > > speaker and consultant to organizations such > as > > the > > > > American Civil > > > > Liberties Union, "The administration has made > it > > > > clear that they do > > > > intend to continue their move to dramatically > > reduce > > > > privacy and > > > > constitutional protection for our citizens." > He > > and > > > > other civil > > > > liberties advocates expect Patriot Act II > > provisions > > > > to resurface > > > > piecemeal, such as in the Anti-Terrorism > > > > Intelligence Tools > > > > Improvement Act of 2003 (HR3179). Bills > trying > > to > > > > remedy some of the > > > > more invasive provisions of the Patriot Act, > > such as > > > > the Security and > > > > Freedom Ensured (SAFE) Act of 2003, are still > > stuck > > > > in the Senate and > > > > House respectively. A driver's license > > provision of > > > > the National > > > > Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Act, passed > > before > > > > the holiday > > > > recess, requires all drivers' licenses to > > include > > > > machine-readable, > > > > encoded data by the end of 2006, and gives the > > > > secretaries of > > > > Transportation and Homeland Security until > > mid-2006 > > > > to define the > > > > data. > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,66242,00.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >======================================================== > > > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing > List > > > > "In a multitude of counselors there is > > strength" > > > > > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list > > visit: > > > > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in > > motion. > > > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that > thoughts > > > > acquire speed, > > > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a > > > > warning. > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in > > motion. > > > > > > > =================================================== > > > > TSKS > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >======================================================== > > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > > "In a multitude of counselors there is > > strength" > > > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list > > visit: > > > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in > motion. > > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts > > acquire speed, > > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a > > warning. > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in > motion. > === message truncated === __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 10669 From: A Grudko Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:24am Subject: RE: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment -----Original Message----- From: Nalesnik, Matthew [mailto:matthew.nalesnik@t...] > If true, obviously it's time for revolution, and a new government (not that the current tax situation doesn't call for that anyway... different topic), but certainly NOT a Liberal one, cuz that's just a step towards Socialism, which is a step towards Communism, and if you think that your liberties are being trampled on now. But if it's not true - which I don't think it is - then we need to focus on real enemies... like the UN. Can we stay away from political grandstanding and stick to TSCM issues? There are plenty of other places on the net to rant about conspiracies and the evils of politics. Andy Grudko (British), DPM, Grad IS (South Africa) MIS/Grudko Associates, Est. 1981. PSIRA reg. No. 8642 www.grudko.com , agrudko@i... Pretoria HO (+27 12) 244 0255 - 244 0256 (Fax) Branches: Sandton (+27 11) 465 9673 - 465 1487 (Fax) Johannesburg (+27 11) 781 7206 - 781 7207(Fax) Mid Rand (+27 11) 318 1451 - 318 6846(Fax) Cellular (+27) 82 778 6355 - ICQ 146498943 SACI(Pres) SASA, IPA, WAD, CALI, UKPIN, IWWA. "When you need it done right - first time" --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.816 / Virus Database: 554 - Release Date: 2004/12/14 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10670 From: Tech Sec Lab Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:30am Subject: RE: Cellular system capacity Well its more on topic than the rest of the posts at the mo. It depends on the cell system. GSM which uses FDMA/TDMA can usually cope with a thousand ish. This is divided up into various providers, ie maybe 3 or so, o2, Vodafone and Orange. CDMA can cope with more. It also depends on what freq bands the cell runs on. For GSM if it runs on 1800 and 1900 the you push capacity to whichever frequency band is light. In GSM-900 there is 124 channels, each divided into 8 timeslots. Time-slot number 0 is usually used to communicate control information, this gives the possibility to have 868 calls at the same time. Regards -Ois *************************** Message: 9 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 14:30:36 -0000 From: "Leanardo" Subject: Off-topic Question re: Cellular system capacity Can anyone tell me what the "typical" call load of a single cellular base station? What I mean by call load is the total number of concurrent connections the base can handle at one time before a cellular user receives a network busy signal. I realize there are a number of variables, but I am just looking for a ball-park answer. Thanks, Bruce 10671 From: James M. Atkinson Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:48am Subject: McDonald's in Boca to offer glimpse into world of espionage By Luis F. Perez Staff Writer January 14, 2005 Boca Raton ˇ He's an international man of intrigue who's bringing some of the old trade secrets from the espionage world to, well, a McDonald's. It's not just any McDonald's restaurant, however. H. Keith Melton -- an intelligence historian, author of several spy history books and businessman -- today opens the McDonald's Spy Café at the tony Shoppes at Boca Center on Military Trail. The exhibit is a small sampling of the more than 7,000 artifacts Melton has collected from intelligence agencies all over the world. "These are real spy gadgets, not James Bond," Melton said. "James Bond is about assassinations and seduction, which is the antithesis of real espionage. In the real world, espionage is about information and communication." So the sizzle at the restaurant won't be between the sheets, but on the grill, and in the exhibit that includes a World War II-vintage Enigma cipher machine, one of the few remaining in the world, Mata Hari's bra and a Maxwell Smart-like spy shoe. Melton, who lives in the city, a crew of workers and Vladimir Alexeenko, who says he is a former KGB agent, on Thursday put the finishing touches on the exhibit. In 1994, the old spy met the spy historian in Moscow while Melton worked on a television documentary. Alexeenko, who said his father and grandfather before him also were spies, has since collaborated with Melton on several projects as a consultant on KGB history. While working for the Soviet Union, Alexeenko helped protect Soviet embassies and trade missions. He learned how to use different spy devices and became a member of the team that searched for bugs in new buildings, Alexeenko said. "I left the KGB in 1992," Alexeenko said in a heavy Russian accent. After his spy days, he started a security business. So aside from helping with Melton's exhibit, he also installed the restaurant's security cameras. On Thursday, Alexeenko worked at a laptop computer in a corner of the restaurant, putting on a gray trench coat with the collar turned up when the machine-cooled air became too cold. This isn't Alexeenko's first visit to Boca Raton. He traveled here in 1998 to work on Melton's private collection called The Spy Museum, which is one of a kind. "He has many, many absolutely unique items," said Peter Earnest, executive director of the International Spy Museum in Washington D.C. Many of those items are specific to spies and individuals, and the artifacts are "very well cared for," he said. "I think he has the largest private collection in the world," Earnest said. Melton serves on the board of the International Spy Museum, which opened in April 2002, and was a major contributor to getting it started. He advised on the content and where to procure the items, Earnest said. Melton's collection also has fed other major spy exhibits. More than 500 of his devices are on display at the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency's Cold War Museum. And he also contributed a major portion of his collection documenting the agency that preceded the CIA -- the Office of Strategic Services -- to an internal agency museum. Melton owns 24 McDonald's restaurants in Broward and Palm Beach counties. He opened his first themed McDonald's in 1998 focusing on motorcycles. Others soon followed, featuring rock 'n' roll and movie monster memorabilia. He said he plans on converting all of them to a theme in the next three years. But it's the spy café that matches Melton's double life as an expert on espionage history and McDonald's owner. Patrons can share that expertise while munching on a Big Mac. They can sit next to the Enigma, which Germans used during the war for their most secret communications without knowing Allied forces eventually broke the code. Those fries can come with a lesson about Dutch-born dancer Margaretha Zelle, who used the stage name Mata Hari. She took up spying on her influential lovers for the Germans, but was caught and executed in 1918. And Maxwell Smart would be proud to eat near the shoes ordered by the U.S. ambassador in Czechoslovakia in the 1960s. The Czech intelligence service intercepted them to plant an eavesdropping system in the heel. "This is the real world of espionage," Melton said. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We Expertly Hunt Real Spies, Real Eavesdroppers, and Real Wiretappers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 Web: http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 Email: mailto:jmatk@t... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- World Class, Professional, Ethical, and Competent Bug Sweeps, and Wiretap Detection using Sophisticated Laboratory Grade Test Equipment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10672 From: kondrak Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:21am Subject: Fwd: Wow! (OT) Nuther candidate for the bad radio people.....know theres radio ppl here, just A FYI >Read down to the narrative and the negative comments this guy got !! > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1502&item=5745431636&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10673 From: kondrak Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:27am Subject: Re: Off-topic Question re: Cellular system capacity Varies, by number of actual TX/RX units and the modulation scheme. At 09:30 1/19/2005, you wrote: >Can anyone tell me what the "typical" call load of a single cellular >base station? What I mean by call load is the total number of >concurrent connections the base can handle at one time before a >cellular user receives a network busy signal. I realize there are a >number of variables, but I am just looking for a ball-park answer. > >Thanks, Bruce > > > > > > > > > > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >=================================================== TSKS >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > 10674 From: kondrak Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:32am Subject: RE: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment "I" don't, I'd never do that to my fellow citizens, but the possibility "someone" has, or will exists....theres certainly been enough conspiracies that are being covered up, all marching twords the same result, a totalitarian state replacing ours. Look at the recent cover-ups, OKC stands out. Especially under a socialist like Clinton's, (and her husband) watch. The DHS hires Primikov of the Ex-KGB to design "Internal passports" for US citizens, what conclusions should one draw? Im not liking what Im seeing.... At 13:15 1/19/2005, you wrote: >Does that mean you conspire to believe they crashed planes into the WTC >and Pentagon, and PA, just to make provisions to take our liberties away? >That's a strong accusation. If true, obviously it's time for revolution, >and a new government (not that the current tax situation doesn't call for >that anyway... different topic), but certainly NOT a Liberal one, cuz >that's just a step towards Socialism, which is a step towards Communism, >and if you think that your liberties are being trampled on now... >But if it's not true - which I don't think it is - then we need to focus >on real enemies... like the UN. > >-----Original Message----- >From: kondrak [mailto:kondrak@s...] > > > >>But the police-state marches on....if theres any impediment to it, they'll > >>undoubtedly nuke some city to use more terror to make people give up their > >>liberty. > > >At 01:12 1/19/2005, you wrote: > > >This needs to be stopped immediately, they have more > >than enough power to do whatever they want with the > >original Patriot Act abomination that flushed the > >Constitution down the toilet. > > > >Bush et al are using their newfound powers to disrupt > >and destroy the credibility of U.S. citizens that > >would dare speak out against their corrupt regime and > >practice the hallowed right of public dissent. > > > >Pro se lawsuits directed against Administration > >officials is likely the only recourse at this point, > >it's apparent that the vast majority of Congress is > >being blackmailed at this point. > > > >--- savanted1 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to > > > Augment > > > Controversial Domestic Surveillance Powers > > > > > > > > > According to former Republican congressman Bob Barr, > > > now working as a > > > speaker and consultant to organizations such as the > > > American Civil > > > Liberties Union, "The administration has made it > > > clear that they do > > > intend to continue their move to dramatically reduce > > > privacy and > > > constitutional protection for our citizens." He and > > > other civil > > > liberties advocates expect Patriot Act II provisions > > > to resurface > > > piecemeal, such as in the Anti-Terrorism > > > Intelligence Tools > > > Improvement Act of 2003 (HR3179). Bills trying to > > > remedy some of the > > > more invasive provisions of the Patriot Act, such as > > > the Security and > > > Freedom Ensured (SAFE) Act of 2003, are still stuck > > > in the Senate and > > > House respectively. A driver's license provision of > > > the National > > > Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Act, passed before > > > the holiday > > > recess, requires all drivers' licenses to include > > > machine-readable, > > > encoded data by the end of 2006, and gives the > > > secretaries of > > > Transportation and Homeland Security until mid-2006 > > > to define the > > > data. > > > > > > http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,66242,00.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > >======================================================== > > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts > > > acquire speed, > > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a > > > warning. > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > > > =================================================== > > > TSKS > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >======================================================== > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > >=================================================== TSKS > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > >It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, >the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. >It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >=================================================== TSKS > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > >ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > >Yahoo! Groups Links >* To visit your group on the web, go to: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TSCM-L/ > >* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > >* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >Service . > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >=================================================== TSKS >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > 10675 From: kondrak Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:33am Subject: Re: Seriously OT: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment Got that right, I've always admired Ron Paul... At 23:00 1/19/2005, you wrote: >Good for you! Where was the article published? > >The U.S. Reps and Senators SHOULD take it personally, >they are guilty of high treason and have shredded the >Constitution that they swore to uphold, respect, and >protect. > >Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) is one of the few honest members >left. > >--- Bill & Tracy McDonnell >wrote: > > > It is very imprudent to deprive America of any of > > her privileges. If her commerce and friendship are > > of any importance to you, they are to be had on no > > other terms than leaving her in the full enjoyment > > of her rights." --Benjamin Franklin > > I found this and it fits perfectly with the Rights > > we have being taken away. I wrote an article not > > long ago about how we are no longer a Democracy. The > > U.S Reps. and Senators took it personal. They don't > > represent the constituents, they represent their > > investors, and the oil and pharmaceutical companies. > > You would be surprised the letters I received over > > the article! > > > > Bigdaddy > > www.bigdaddydanes.com > > > > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >=================================================== TSKS >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > 10676 From: Greg Horton Date: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:47pm Subject: UN Resolutions? (Off Topic) What about all the U.N. resolutions against Israel? They have been breaking those for years, but the U.S. does not enforce them? Could you please be specific. Which resolutions are you talking about? I am not a real fan of Israel, but I don't remember a lot of resolutions that were brought forth unless it was the Muslim block of countries that proposed them. Greg