From: Nalesnik, Matthew Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:59am Subject: RE: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment Then what basis or precedent, besides a weak conspiracy theory, would you base this statement on "But the police-state marches on....if theres any impediment to it, they'll undoubtedly nuke some city to use *MORE* terror to make people give up their liberty"? (caps on 'MORE' mine) ? You've basically switched nukes for planes, and I may be mistaken, of course, but your implication is that the terror attacks that already happened were used to make people give up their liberty, and that the Bush administration would use *MORE* terror attacks (albeit nukes, or planes, or whatever) to take more liberties away. Would you like to clarify, or did I hit it on the head? -----Original Message----- From: Agent Geiger [mailto:agentgeiger@y...] Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 9:06 PM To: TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [TSCM-L] Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment I never said anything about planes did I? You are making incorrect inferences. --- "Nalesnik, Matthew" wrote: > > Does that mean you conspire to believe they crashed > planes into the WTC and Pentagon, and PA, just to > make provisions to take our liberties away? > That's a strong accusation. If true, obviously it's > time for revolution, and a new government (not that > the current tax situation doesn't call for that > anyway... different topic), but certainly NOT a > Liberal one, cuz that's just a step towards > Socialism, which is a step towards Communism, and if > you think that your liberties are being trampled on > now... > But if it's not true - which I don't think it is - > then we need to focus on real enemies... like the > UN. > > -----Original Message----- > From: kondrak [mailto:kondrak@s...] > > > >>But the police-state marches on....if theres any > impediment to it, they'll > >>undoubtedly nuke some city to use more terror to > make people give up their > >>liberty. > > > At 01:12 1/19/2005, you wrote: > > >This needs to be stopped immediately, they have > more > >than enough power to do whatever they want with the > >original Patriot Act abomination that flushed the > >Constitution down the toilet. > > > >Bush et al are using their newfound powers to > disrupt > >and destroy the credibility of U.S. citizens that > >would dare speak out against their corrupt regime > and > >practice the hallowed right of public dissent. > > > >Pro se lawsuits directed against Administration > >officials is likely the only recourse at this > point, > >it's apparent that the vast majority of Congress is > >being blackmailed at this point. > > > >--- savanted1 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to > > > Augment > > > Controversial Domestic Surveillance Powers > > > > > > > > > According to former Republican congressman Bob > Barr, > > > now working as a > > > speaker and consultant to organizations such as > the > > > American Civil > > > Liberties Union, "The administration has made it > > > clear that they do > > > intend to continue their move to dramatically > reduce > > > privacy and > > > constitutional protection for our citizens." He > and > > > other civil > > > liberties advocates expect Patriot Act II > provisions > > > to resurface > > > piecemeal, such as in the Anti-Terrorism > > > Intelligence Tools > > > Improvement Act of 2003 (HR3179). Bills trying > to > > > remedy some of the > > > more invasive provisions of the Patriot Act, > such as > > > the Security and > > > Freedom Ensured (SAFE) Act of 2003, are still > stuck > > > in the Senate and > > > House respectively. A driver's license > provision of > > > the National > > > Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Act, passed > before > > > the holiday > > > recess, requires all drivers' licenses to > include > > > machine-readable, > > > encoded data by the end of 2006, and gives the > > > secretaries of > > > Transportation and Homeland Security until > mid-2006 > > > to define the > > > data. > > > > > > > http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,66242,00.html > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TSCM-L/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10678 From: Ian Wraith Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:39am Subject: Re: Off-topic Question re: Cellular system capacity Hello Leanardo wrote: > Can anyone tell me what the "typical" call load of a single cellular > base station? What I mean by call load is the total number of > concurrent connections the base can handle at one time before a > cellular user receives a network busy signal. I realize there are a > number of variables, but I am just looking for a ball-park answer. Sadly I don't think there is anything like a typical base station ! With GSM (I don't know a lot about UMTS I'm afraid) there are some base stations that consist of a single carrier. As it is TDMA that would have 8 timeslots of which 7 could be used for calls. Then there are multi-sector sites transmitting multiple carriers with a capability of handling 100's of calls. Plus there are all sizes of base stations in-between. You also have to remember that in most urban environments a mobile can hear multiple base stations and if the strongest is totally saturated will use another. So I'm afraid there isn't an easy answer to your question. Regards Ian 10679 From: Nalesnik, Matthew Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:01am Subject: RE: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment True, and I even complained about that before, when the elections were near. That makes me a hypocrite, and I apologize... I never could resist an argument/debate, though - especially when it comes to something so close to my heart. -----Original Message----- From: A Grudko [mailto:agrudko@i...] Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 4:24 AM To: TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [TSCM-L] Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment -----Original Message----- From: Nalesnik, Matthew [mailto:matthew.nalesnik@t...] > If true, obviously it's time for revolution, and a new government (not that the current tax situation doesn't call for that anyway... different topic), but certainly NOT a Liberal one, cuz that's just a step towards Socialism, which is a step towards Communism, and if you think that your liberties are being trampled on now. But if it's not true - which I don't think it is - then we need to focus on real enemies... like the UN. Can we stay away from political grandstanding and stick to TSCM issues? There are plenty of other places on the net to rant about conspiracies and the evils of politics. Andy Grudko (British), DPM, Grad IS (South Africa) MIS/Grudko Associates, Est. 1981. PSIRA reg. No. 8642 www.grudko.com , agrudko@i... Pretoria HO (+27 12) 244 0255 - 244 0256 (Fax) Branches: Sandton (+27 11) 465 9673 - 465 1487 (Fax) Johannesburg (+27 11) 781 7206 - 781 7207(Fax) Mid Rand (+27 11) 318 1451 - 318 6846(Fax) Cellular (+27) 82 778 6355 - ICQ 146498943 SACI(Pres) SASA, IPA, WAD, CALI, UKPIN, IWWA. "When you need it done right - first time" --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system ( http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.816 / Virus Database: 554 - Release Date: 2004/12/14 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TSCM-L/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10680 From: Kohlenberg, Toby Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 0:24am Subject: RE: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment can we please please please get back to TSCM instead of strange rants that range from one political extreme to the other? >-----Original Message----- >From: Agent Geiger [mailto:agentgeiger@y...] >Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 6:06 PM >To: TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com >Subject: RE: [TSCM-L] Privacy Activists Brace for White House >Push to Augment > > >I never said anything about planes did I? You are >making incorrect inferences. > >--- "Nalesnik, Matthew" > wrote: > >> >> Does that mean you conspire to believe they crashed >> planes into the WTC and Pentagon, and PA, just to >> make provisions to take our liberties away? >> That's a strong accusation. If true, obviously it's >> time for revolution, and a new government (not that >> the current tax situation doesn't call for that >> anyway... different topic), but certainly NOT a >> Liberal one, cuz that's just a step towards >> Socialism, which is a step towards Communism, and if >> you think that your liberties are being trampled on >> now... >> But if it's not true - which I don't think it is - >> then we need to focus on real enemies... like the >> UN. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: kondrak [mailto:kondrak@s...] >> >> >> >>But the police-state marches on....if theres any >> impediment to it, they'll >> >>undoubtedly nuke some city to use more terror to >> make people give up their >> >>liberty. >> >> >> At 01:12 1/19/2005, you wrote: >> >> >This needs to be stopped immediately, they have >> more >> >than enough power to do whatever they want with the >> >original Patriot Act abomination that flushed the >> >Constitution down the toilet. >> > >> >Bush et al are using their newfound powers to >> disrupt >> >and destroy the credibility of U.S. citizens that >> >would dare speak out against their corrupt regime >> and >> >practice the hallowed right of public dissent. >> > >> >Pro se lawsuits directed against Administration >> >officials is likely the only recourse at this >> point, >> >it's apparent that the vast majority of Congress is >> >being blackmailed at this point. >> > >> >--- savanted1 wrote: >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to >> > > Augment >> > > Controversial Domestic Surveillance Powers >> > > >> > > >> > > According to former Republican congressman Bob >> Barr, >> > > now working as a >> > > speaker and consultant to organizations such as >> the >> > > American Civil >> > > Liberties Union, "The administration has made it >> > > clear that they do >> > > intend to continue their move to dramatically >> reduce >> > > privacy and >> > > constitutional protection for our citizens." He >> and >> > > other civil >> > > liberties advocates expect Patriot Act II >> provisions >> > > to resurface >> > > piecemeal, such as in the Anti-Terrorism >> > > Intelligence Tools >> > > Improvement Act of 2003 (HR3179). Bills trying >> to >> > > remedy some of the >> > > more invasive provisions of the Patriot Act, >> such as >> > > the Security and >> > > Freedom Ensured (SAFE) Act of 2003, are still >> stuck >> > > in the Senate and >> > > House respectively. A driver's license >> provision of >> > > the National >> > > Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Act, passed >> before >> > > the holiday >> > > recess, requires all drivers' licenses to >> include >> > > machine-readable, >> > > encoded data by the end of 2006, and gives the >> > > secretaries of >> > > Transportation and Homeland Security until >> mid-2006 >> > > to define the >> > > data. >> > > >> > > >> http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,66242,00.html >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >>======================================================== >> > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List >> > > "In a multitude of counselors there is >> strength" >> > > >> > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list >> visit: >> > > >> http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L >> > > >> > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in >> motion. >> > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts >> > > acquire speed, >> > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a >> > > warning. >> > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in >> motion. >> > > >> =================================================== >> > > TSKS >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links >> > > >> > > >> > > TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >>======================================================== >> > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List >> > "In a multitude of counselors there is >> strength" >> > >> > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list >> visit: >> > >> http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L >> > >> > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >> > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts >> acquire speed, >> > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a >> warning. >> > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >> >=================================================== >> TSKS >> >Yahoo! Groups Links >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >======================================================== >> TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List >> "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" >> >> To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: >> http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L >> >> It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >> It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts >> acquire speed, >> the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. >> It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >> =================================================== >> TSKS >> >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >> >> >> >=== message truncated === > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. >http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > > >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >--------------------~--> >In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. >At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! >http://us.click.yahoo.com/EpW3eD/3MnJAA/cosFAA/UBhwlB/TM >--------------------------------------------------------------- >-----~-> > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: >http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >=================================================== TSKS >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > 10681 From: Nalesnik, Matthew Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 7:53am Subject: RE: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment > Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that our > interventionist foreign policy is to blame for the > attacks. We don't have diplomats in the country of "Al Qaeda"...? If our interventionist foreign policy is to blame, who did we "intervene" against to cause terrorists, with no home country, to kill Americans, on American soil? -----Original Message----- From: G P [mailto:telos888@y...] Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 10:54 PM --- "Nalesnik, Matthew" wrote: > Does that mean you conspire to believe they crashed > planes into the WTC and Pentagon, and PA, just to > make provisions to take our liberties away? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that our interventionist foreign policy is to blame for the attacks. > then we need to focus on real enemies... like the > UN. Yep. This Iraq war is nothing but U.N. puppetry, and U.S. tax dollars have been enforcing U.N. mandates for decades. Bankruptcy is the preferred tactic for hostile takeover, insurmountable debt is the perfect leverage for a coup. Countries can be purposely bankrupted, just like companies routinely are. "...where the rule of law-governs the conduct of nations...in which a credible United Nations can use its peacekeeping role to fulfill the promise and vision of the UN's founders." -- George H. W. Bush, January 16, 1991, speech regarding hostilities with Iraq > > -----Original Message----- > From: kondrak [mailto:kondrak@s...] > > > >>But the police-state marches on....if theres any > impediment to it, they'll > >>undoubtedly nuke some city to use more terror to > make people give up their > >>liberty. > > > At 01:12 1/19/2005, you wrote: > > >This needs to be stopped immediately, they have > more > >than enough power to do whatever they want with the > >original Patriot Act abomination that flushed the > >Constitution down the toilet. > > > >Bush et al are using their newfound powers to > disrupt > >and destroy the credibility of U.S. citizens that > >would dare speak out against their corrupt regime > and > >practice the hallowed right of public dissent. > > > >Pro se lawsuits directed against Administration > >officials is likely the only recourse at this > point, > >it's apparent that the vast majority of Congress is > >being blackmailed at this point. > > > >--- savanted1 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to > > > Augment > > > Controversial Domestic Surveillance Powers > > > > > > > > > According to former Republican congressman Bob > Barr, > > > now working as a > > > speaker and consultant to organizations such as > the > > > American Civil > > > Liberties Union, "The administration has made it > > > clear that they do > > > intend to continue their move to dramatically > reduce > > > privacy and > > > constitutional protection for our citizens." He > and > > > other civil > > > liberties advocates expect Patriot Act II > provisions > > > to resurface > > > piecemeal, such as in the Anti-Terrorism > > > Intelligence Tools > > > Improvement Act of 2003 (HR3179). Bills trying > to > > > remedy some of the > > > more invasive provisions of the Patriot Act, > such as > > > the Security and > > > Freedom Ensured (SAFE) Act of 2003, are still > stuck > > > in the Senate and > > > House respectively. A driver's license > provision of > > > the National > > > Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Act, passed > before > > > the holiday > > > recess, requires all drivers' licenses to > include > > > machine-readable, > > > encoded data by the end of 2006, and gives the > > > secretaries of > > > Transportation and Homeland Security until > mid-2006 > > > to define the > > > data. > > > > > > > http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,66242,00.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > >======================================================== > > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > > "In a multitude of counselors there is > strength" > > > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list > visit: > > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in > motion. > > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts > > > acquire speed, > > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a > > > warning. > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in > motion. > > > > =================================================== > > > TSKS > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >======================================================== > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > "In a multitude of counselors there is > strength" > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list > visit: > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts > acquire speed, > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a > warning. > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > >=================================================== > TSKS > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts > acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > =================================================== > TSKS > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > === message truncated === ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TSCM-L/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10682 From: Riskbiz Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:20am Subject: RE: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment I subscribed to this list to learn and educate myself about TSCM and asso fields, not listen to a bunch of psychotic/hysterical social/political commentary. Please stick to the topic or post elsewhere and stop filling my inbox with this crap. DK -----Original Message----- From: Agent Geiger [mailto:agentgeiger@y...] Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 11:24 PM To: TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment You mistook my previous posting. I am not saying I do not agree with people bringing forth suits and defending themselves(I do it in small claims court all the time). My piont is, that if you try and take on the juggernaut in power, via constitional pro-se means, e.g., tax resisting, rescinding your drivers license and SSN, etc. You in the practical sense, will lose. the judges will either rule against you, or dismiss. All the time, you spend a lot of money, and get little true justice. However, the system remains intact. I am not saying it right. It is the fact. The deck is stacked all the way to the Supreme Court. How in the world can you win in "their" system, by playing by the rules they themselves do not play by? --- G P wrote: > > Pro Se lawsuits will only get you laughed out of courts and labeled > > a kook. > > Interesting opinion, as pro se litigants are held to a much lesser > standard of legal review. Going pro se with a defense (or offense) is > a significant advantage over professional counsel. > > >If they actually got you somewhere, you'd be > killed. > > Very interesting. So by retaining professional legal counsel, one is > immune to assassination...? Per that logic, we're going about this > war in Iraq thing all wrong - we should be sending squadrons of > laywers over there to defend our interests ;) > > The law is the law, period. 2752 people died in the September 11th > attacks, but millions have been killed protecting that very same > Constitution that has been trampled upon with the Patriot Act and > upcoming Patriot Act II legislation. > > Our elected officials swore to uphold and defend the Constitution, not > to rewrite history and laws to suit the military-industrial complex. > > Regards > > Greg > > > > > --- kondrak wrote: > > > > > But the police-state marches on....if theres any impediment to it, > > > they'll undoubtedly nuke some city to use more terror to make > > > people give up their liberty. > > > > > > > > > At 01:12 1/19/2005, you wrote: > > > > > > >This needs to be stopped immediately, they have > > > more > > > >than enough power to do whatever they want with > > the > > > >original Patriot Act abomination that flushed > the > > > >Constitution down the toilet. > > > > > > > >Bush et al are using their newfound powers to > > > disrupt > > > >and destroy the credibility of U.S. citizens > that > > > >would dare speak out against their corrupt > regime > > > and > > > >practice the hallowed right of public dissent. > > > > > > > >Pro se lawsuits directed against Administration officials is > > > >likely the only recourse at this > > > point, > > > >it's apparent that the vast majority of > Congress > > is > > > >being blackmailed at this point. > > > > > > > >--- savanted1 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push > > to > > > > > Augment > > > > > Controversial Domestic Surveillance > > Powers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > According to former Republican congressman > Bob > > > Barr, > > > > > now working as a > > > > > speaker and consultant to organizations such > > as > > > the > > > > > American Civil > > > > > Liberties Union, "The administration has > made > > it > > > > > clear that they do > > > > > intend to continue their move to > dramatically > > > reduce > > > > > privacy and > > > > > constitutional protection for our citizens." > > > He > > > and > > > > > other civil > > > > > liberties advocates expect Patriot Act II > > > provisions > > > > > to resurface > > > > > piecemeal, such as in the Anti-Terrorism Intelligence Tools > > > > > Improvement Act of 2003 (HR3179). Bills > > trying > > > to > > > > > remedy some of the > > > > > more invasive provisions of the Patriot Act, > > > such as > > > > > the Security and > > > > > Freedom Ensured (SAFE) Act of 2003, are > still > > > stuck > > > > > in the Senate and > > > > > House respectively. A driver's license > > > provision of > > > > > the National > > > > > Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Act, > passed > > > before > > > > > the holiday > > > > > recess, requires all drivers' licenses to > > > include > > > > > machine-readable, > > > > > encoded data by the end of 2006, and gives > the > > > > > secretaries of > > > > > Transportation and Homeland Security until > > > mid-2006 > > > > > to define the > > > > > data. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,66242,00.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups > Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=======================================================> > > > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing > > List > > > > > "In a multitude of counselors there is > > > strength" > > > > > > > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list > > > visit: > > > > > > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > > > > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in > > > motion. > > > > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that > > thoughts > > > > > acquire speed, > > > > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a > > > > > warning. > > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in > > > motion. > > > > > > > > > > > ==================================================> > > > > TSKS > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > === message truncated == __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ======================================================= TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS Yahoo! Groups Links 10683 From: G P Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 0:03pm Subject: RE: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment Sounds like DK needs a hug. --- Riskbiz wrote: > I subscribed to this list to learn and educate > myself about TSCM and asso > fields, not listen to a bunch of > psychotic/hysterical social/political > commentary. Please stick to the topic or post > elsewhere and stop filling my > inbox with this crap. > > DK > 10684 From: Agent Geiger Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 0:21pm Subject: RE: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment Nope, you have me mistaken with someone else. --- "Nalesnik, Matthew" wrote: > > Then what basis or precedent, besides a weak > conspiracy theory, would you base this statement on > "But the police-state marches on....if theres any > impediment to it, they'll undoubtedly nuke some > city to use *MORE* terror to make people give up > their liberty"? (caps on 'MORE' mine) ? > You've basically switched nukes for planes, and I > may be mistaken, of course, but your implication is > that the terror attacks that already happened were > used to make people give up their liberty, and that > the Bush administration would use *MORE* terror > attacks (albeit nukes, or planes, or whatever) to > take more liberties away. > Would you like to clarify, or did I hit it on the > head? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Agent Geiger [mailto:agentgeiger@y...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 9:06 PM > To: TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [TSCM-L] Privacy Activists Brace for > White House Push to Augment > > I never said anything about planes did I? You are > making incorrect inferences. > > --- "Nalesnik, Matthew" > wrote: > > > > > Does that mean you conspire to believe they > crashed > > planes into the WTC and Pentagon, and PA, just to > > make provisions to take our liberties away? > > That's a strong accusation. If true, obviously > it's > > time for revolution, and a new government (not > that > > the current tax situation doesn't call for that > > anyway... different topic), but certainly NOT a > > Liberal one, cuz that's just a step towards > > Socialism, which is a step towards Communism, and > if > > you think that your liberties are being trampled > on > > now... > > But if it's not true - which I don't think it is - > > then we need to focus on real enemies... like the > > UN. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: kondrak [mailto:kondrak@s...] > > > > > > >>But the police-state marches on....if theres any > > impediment to it, they'll > > >>undoubtedly nuke some city to use more terror to > > make people give up their > > >>liberty. > > > > > > At 01:12 1/19/2005, you wrote: > > > > >This needs to be stopped immediately, they have > > more > > >than enough power to do whatever they want with > the > > >original Patriot Act abomination that flushed the > > >Constitution down the toilet. > > > > > >Bush et al are using their newfound powers to > > disrupt > > >and destroy the credibility of U.S. citizens that > > >would dare speak out against their corrupt regime > > and > > >practice the hallowed right of public dissent. > > > > > >Pro se lawsuits directed against Administration > > >officials is likely the only recourse at this > > point, > > >it's apparent that the vast majority of Congress > is > > >being blackmailed at this point. > > > > > >--- savanted1 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push > to > > > > Augment > > > > Controversial Domestic Surveillance > Powers > > > > > > > > > > > > According to former Republican congressman Bob > > Barr, > > > > now working as a > > > > speaker and consultant to organizations such > as > > the > > > > American Civil > > > > Liberties Union, "The administration has made > it > > > > clear that they do > > > > intend to continue their move to dramatically > > reduce > > > > privacy and > > > > constitutional protection for our citizens." > He > > and > > > > other civil > > > > liberties advocates expect Patriot Act II > > provisions > > > > to resurface > > > > piecemeal, such as in the Anti-Terrorism > > > > Intelligence Tools > > > > Improvement Act of 2003 (HR3179). Bills > trying > > to > > > > remedy some of the > > > > more invasive provisions of the Patriot Act, > > such as > > > > the Security and > > > > Freedom Ensured (SAFE) Act of 2003, are still > > stuck > > > > in the Senate and > > > > House respectively. A driver's license > > provision of > > > > the National > > > > Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Act, passed > > before > > > > the holiday > > > > recess, requires all drivers' licenses to > > include > > > > machine-readable, > > > > encoded data by the end of 2006, and gives the > > > > secretaries of > > > > Transportation and Homeland Security until > > mid-2006 > > > > to define the > > > > data. > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,66242,00.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced > search. > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts > acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > =================================================== > TSKS > > > > _____ > > Yahoo! Groups Links > * To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TSCM-L/ > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an > email to: > TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > the Yahoo! Terms of Service > . > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > === message truncated === __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com 10685 From: Agent Geiger Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 0:22pm Subject: RE: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment Sure --- "Kohlenberg, Toby" wrote: > > can we please please please get back to TSCM instead > of strange > rants that range from one political extreme to the > other? > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Agent Geiger [mailto:agentgeiger@y...] > >Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2005 6:06 PM > >To: TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: RE: [TSCM-L] Privacy Activists Brace for > White House > >Push to Augment > > > > > >I never said anything about planes did I? You are > >making incorrect inferences. > > > >--- "Nalesnik, Matthew" > > wrote: > > > >> > >> Does that mean you conspire to believe they > crashed > >> planes into the WTC and Pentagon, and PA, just to > >> make provisions to take our liberties away? > >> That's a strong accusation. If true, obviously > it's > >> time for revolution, and a new government (not > that > >> the current tax situation doesn't call for that > >> anyway... different topic), but certainly NOT a > >> Liberal one, cuz that's just a step towards > >> Socialism, which is a step towards Communism, and > if > >> you think that your liberties are being trampled > on > >> now... > >> But if it's not true - which I don't think it is > - > >> then we need to focus on real enemies... like the > >> UN. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: kondrak [mailto:kondrak@s...] > >> > >> > >> >>But the police-state marches on....if theres > any > >> impediment to it, they'll > >> >>undoubtedly nuke some city to use more terror > to > >> make people give up their > >> >>liberty. > >> > >> > >> At 01:12 1/19/2005, you wrote: > >> > >> >This needs to be stopped immediately, they have > >> more > >> >than enough power to do whatever they want with > the > >> >original Patriot Act abomination that flushed > the > >> >Constitution down the toilet. > >> > > >> >Bush et al are using their newfound powers to > >> disrupt > >> >and destroy the credibility of U.S. citizens > that > >> >would dare speak out against their corrupt > regime > >> and > >> >practice the hallowed right of public dissent. > >> > > >> >Pro se lawsuits directed against Administration > >> >officials is likely the only recourse at this > >> point, > >> >it's apparent that the vast majority of Congress > is > >> >being blackmailed at this point. > >> > > >> >--- savanted1 wrote: > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push > to > >> > > Augment > >> > > Controversial Domestic Surveillance > Powers > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > According to former Republican congressman > Bob > >> Barr, > >> > > now working as a > >> > > speaker and consultant to organizations such > as > >> the > >> > > American Civil > >> > > Liberties Union, "The administration has made > it > >> > > clear that they do > >> > > intend to continue their move to dramatically > >> reduce > >> > > privacy and > >> > > constitutional protection for our citizens." > He > >> and > >> > > other civil > >> > > liberties advocates expect Patriot Act II > >> provisions > >> > > to resurface > >> > > piecemeal, such as in the Anti-Terrorism > >> > > Intelligence Tools > >> > > Improvement Act of 2003 (HR3179). Bills > trying > >> to > >> > > remedy some of the > >> > > more invasive provisions of the Patriot Act, > >> such as > >> > > the Security and > >> > > Freedom Ensured (SAFE) Act of 2003, are still > >> stuck > >> > > in the Senate and > >> > > House respectively. A driver's license > >> provision of > >> > > the National > >> > > Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Act, passed > >> before > >> > > the holiday > >> > > recess, requires all drivers' licenses to > >> include > >> > > machine-readable, > >> > > encoded data by the end of 2006, and gives > the > >> > > secretaries of > >> > > Transportation and Homeland Security until > >> mid-2006 > >> > > to define the > >> > > data. > >> > > > >> > > > >> > http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,66242,00.html > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups > Sponsor > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >>======================================================== > >> > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing > List > >> > > "In a multitude of counselors there is > >> strength" > >> > > > >> > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list > >> visit: > >> > > > >> http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > >> > > > >> > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in > >> motion. > >> > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that > thoughts > >> > > acquire speed, > >> > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a > >> > > warning. > >> > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in > >> motion. > >> > > > >> > =================================================== > >> > > TSKS > >> > > Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > === message truncated === __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail 10686 From: G P Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 0:45pm Subject: RE: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment Well let's see. We could start with the CIA-sponsored coup in Iran, where we tossed out the democratically-elected Mohammed Mosedegh in 1956 and replaced him with the Shah to insure access to Iran's oilfields (as Mosedegh was nationalizing Anglo-Iranian Oil, which later became British Petroleum under the Shah's reign). That single act, which the Sept. 11 attacks can be traced back directly to, then lead to the anti-American sentiment of the Ayatollah when he overthrew the Shah by way of the Islamic Revolution. Then we decided that we had to "balance the region" by providing weapons to Saddam Hussein (Rumsfeld and Cheney were directly involved in that one). On to arming and training the Islamic Fundamentalist Mujahedeen in Afganistan, as they were fighting the Soviet-backed Northern Alliance. Osama bin Laden visited the U.S. (and is rumored to have visited the White House under the moniker "Tim Osman"), and the CIA set up those same training camps that we're trying to bomb back to the dark ages. (I could mention the fact that several of Osama bin Laden's top generals are now working in very high positions of authority in the U.S. government, but I won't name any names.) Now it's back to sponsoring the Northern Alliance based on intelligence that we will have access to oil fields in Turkmenistan and Kazakstan, the list goes on and on and on and on. Same players, same companies, proletariat caught in the middle as cannon fodder. Cheers! Greg --- "Nalesnik, Matthew" wrote: > We don't have diplomats in the country of "Al > Qaeda"...? If our interventionist foreign policy is > to blame, who did we "intervene" against to cause > terrorists, with no home country, to kill Americans, > on American soil? 10687 From: Nalesnik, Matthew Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 0:06pm Subject: RE: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment Don't we go through this about once a month or so? D K - it will play itself out. Strong opinions are hard to keep contained. Especially when articles sent out are related to TSCM, but also personal freedom, and that sorta off-topic thing. Then it goes to a tangent! - Matt -----Original Message----- From: G P [mailto:telos888@y...] Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:04 PM To: TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [TSCM-L] Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment Sounds like DK needs a hug. --- Riskbiz wrote: > I subscribed to this list to learn and educate > myself about TSCM and asso > fields, not listen to a bunch of > psychotic/hysterical social/political > commentary. Please stick to the topic or post > elsewhere and stop filling my > inbox with this crap. > > DK > ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TSCM-L/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10688 From: Nalesnik, Matthew Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:46am Subject: RE: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment I agree with you to some point - there have always been conspiracies, and total power is the aim. There's always the talk of the "shadow government", and that the government in place really doesn't have any power... alas, it's too much. I believe that there's enough good people left in our great country to stop any such state of totalitarianism from taking over. When the 2nd amendment is trampled on, that truly is a problem as well - because that takes a key power away from us, the power to defend ourselves. That's not to disregard all the other rights we hold as free citizens, regarding free speech, and one close to my heart, freedom of religion. But those are intangibles, and can't actually be taken away by force (except from the fainthearted). The 2nd Amendment: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." - - now that IS something that can physically be taken away - and people take that lightly, citing "safety" as an excuse. I hold true as an idealist at heart that, "Once people have tasted freedom they don't easily give it up." I know that will stand in our country until... at least until Armageddon and the end of the world as we know it is here. Until then, I guess we have to carry n as normal - otherwise we'd die from stress. -----Original Message----- From: kondrak [mailto:kondrak@s...] Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 12:33 PM To: TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [TSCM-L] Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment "I" don't, I'd never do that to my fellow citizens, but the possibility "someone" has, or will exists....theres certainly been enough conspiracies that are being covered up, all marching twords the same result, a totalitarian state replacing ours. Look at the recent cover-ups, OKC stands out. Especially under a socialist like Clinton's, (and her husband) watch. The DHS hires Primikov of the Ex-KGB to design "Internal passports" for US citizens, what conclusions should one draw? Im not liking what Im seeing.... At 13:15 1/19/2005, you wrote: >Does that mean you conspire to believe they crashed planes into the WTC >and Pentagon, and PA, just to make provisions to take our liberties away? >That's a strong accusation. If true, obviously it's time for revolution, >and a new government (not that the current tax situation doesn't call for >that anyway... different topic), but certainly NOT a Liberal one, cuz >that's just a step towards Socialism, which is a step towards Communism, >and if you think that your liberties are being trampled on now... >But if it's not true - which I don't think it is - then we need to focus >on real enemies... like the UN. > >-----Original Message----- >From: kondrak [mailto:kondrak@s...] > > > >>But the police-state marches on....if theres any impediment to it, they'll > >>undoubtedly nuke some city to use more terror to make people give up their > >>liberty. > > >At 01:12 1/19/2005, you wrote: > > >This needs to be stopped immediately, they have more > >than enough power to do whatever they want with the > >original Patriot Act abomination that flushed the > >Constitution down the toilet. > > > >Bush et al are using their newfound powers to disrupt > >and destroy the credibility of U.S. citizens that > >would dare speak out against their corrupt regime and > >practice the hallowed right of public dissent. > > > >Pro se lawsuits directed against Administration > >officials is likely the only recourse at this point, > >it's apparent that the vast majority of Congress is > >being blackmailed at this point. > > > >--- savanted1 wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to > > > Augment > > > Controversial Domestic Surveillance Powers > > > > > > > > > According to former Republican congressman Bob Barr, > > > now working as a > > > speaker and consultant to organizations such as the > > > American Civil > > > Liberties Union, "The administration has made it > > > clear that they do > > > intend to continue their move to dramatically reduce > > > privacy and > > > constitutional protection for our citizens." He and > > > other civil > > > liberties advocates expect Patriot Act II provisions > > > to resurface > > > piecemeal, such as in the Anti-Terrorism > > > Intelligence Tools > > > Improvement Act of 2003 (HR3179). Bills trying to > > > remedy some of the > > > more invasive provisions of the Patriot Act, such as > > > the Security and > > > Freedom Ensured (SAFE) Act of 2003, are still stuck > > > in the Senate and > > > House respectively. A driver's license provision of > > > the National > > > Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Act, passed before > > > the holiday > > > recess, requires all drivers' licenses to include > > > machine-readable, > > > encoded data by the end of 2006, and gives the > > > secretaries of > > > Transportation and Homeland Security until mid-2006 > > > to define the > > > data. > > > > > > http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,66242,00.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > > > > > >======================================================== > > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts > > > acquire speed, > > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a > > > warning. > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > > > =================================================== > > > TSKS > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >======================================================== > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > >=================================================== TSKS > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > >It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, >the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. >It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >=================================================== TSKS > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > >ADVERTISEMENT > > > >< http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129uob3ev/M=298184.5639630.6699735.3001176/D=groups/S=1707216980:HM/EXP=1106242263/A=2532114/R=2/SIG=12kelmonn/*http://clk.atdmt.com/NFX/go/yhxxxnfx0020000014nfx/direct/01/ &time=1106155863563133> > > > >< http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=298184.5639630.6699735.3001176/D=groups/S=:HM/A=2532114/rand=371423117> > > > _____ > >Yahoo! Groups Links >* To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TSCM-L/ > >* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > >* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >Service < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> . > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >=================================================== TSKS >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TSCM-L/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10689 From: G P Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:04pm Subject: RE: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment > Then we decided that we had to "balance the region" > by providing weapons to Saddam Hussein (Rumsfeld and > Cheney were directly involved in that one). Golly gee I keep forgetting to mention that both Rumsfeld and Cheney are members of the Council on Foreign Relations, as was George H. W. Bush. Where there's a coup, there's a CFR member nearby. ;) Cheers! Greg PS: Bush Administration appointees that are members of the Council on Foreign Relations: Richard Cheney Vice President Condoleezza Rice National Security Advisor Franklin C. Miller Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Defense Policy and Arms Control Jendayi E. Frazer Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for African Affairs at the National Security Council George J. Tenet CIA Director Anne O. Krueger Member of the Council of Economic Advisors James L. Connaughton Chairman, President’s Council on Environmental Quality Torkel L. Patterson Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Asian Affairs, National Security Council staff John B. Bellinger III Senior Associate Counsel to the President and Legal Adviser to the National Security Council Marcia E. Miller Member, Commission on Presidential Scholars Fr. Theodore Hesburgh Member, Commission on Presidential Scholars Zalmay Khalilzad Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Gulf, Southwest Asia and Other Regional Issues, National Security Council. Charles Blahous III Member of the National Economic Council, Executive Director of the President’s Commission to Strengthen Social Security Donald Rumsfeld Secretary of Defense Paul D. Wolfowitz Deputy Secretary of Defense Douglas Jay Feith Under Secretary of Defense for Policy James G. Roche Secretary of the Air Force Dov S. Zakheim Under Secretary of Defense (Comptroller) Leo S. Mackay Jr. Deputy Secretary of Veterans Affairs Peter W. Rodman Assistant Secretary of Defense Alberto Jose Mora General Counsel of the Department of the Navy Christine Todd Whitman EPA Administrator Elaine Chao Secretary of Labor Kenneth I. Juster Under Secretary of Commerce for Export Administration Faryar Shirzad Assistant Secretary of Commerce Kathleen B. Cooper Under Secretary of Commerce for Economic Affairs Peter S. Watson President of the Overseas Private Investment Corporation Kenneth W. Dam Deputy Secretary of the Treasury Peter R. Fisher Under Secretary of the Treasury for Domestic Finance Viet D. Dinh Assistant Attorney General Henrietta Holsman Fore Director of the U.S. Mint Jon M. Huntsman Jr. Deputy United States Trade Representative Robert B. Zoellick U.S. Trade Representative Colin L. Powell Secretary of State William J. Burns Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs Lorne W. Craner Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor Walter H. Kansteiner Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs C. David Welch Ambassador to Egypt Howard H. Baker Jr. Ambassador to Japan Paula J. Dobriansky Under Secretary of State for Global Affairs Richard Nathan Haass Director, State Department Policy Planning Staff William H. Taft IV Legal Adviser of the Department of State John Robert Bolton Under Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security Charles A. Heimbold Jr. Ambassador to Sweden John D. Negroponte U.S. Representative to the United Nations Shirin R. Tahir-Kheli Head of the U.S. Delegation to the United Nations Commission on Human Rights Franklin L. Lavin Ambassador to Singapore Michael E. Guest Ambassador to Romania Alexander R. Vershbow Ambassador to the Russian Federation Daniel Charles Kurtzer Ambassador to Israel John Price Ambassador to Mauritius Carole L. Brookins Executive Director of the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (a part of the World Bank) From: http://www.stoptheftaa.org/artman/publish/article_73.shtml 10690 From: James M. Atkinson Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:02pm Subject: Inauguration Video Let it load, even though it is 6 MB long http://movies.yahoo.com/movies/feature/jibjabinaugural.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We Expertly Hunt Real Spies, Real Eavesdroppers, and Real Wiretappers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 Web: http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 Email: mailto:jmatk@t... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- World Class, Professional, Ethical, and Competent Bug Sweeps, and Wiretap Detection using Sophisticated Laboratory Grade Test Equipment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10691 From: James M. Atkinson Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:09pm Subject: Inaugural Pictures Here is one of those secret Skull and Bones ceremonies http://conservativelife.com/blog/media/bushzipper.jpg Can anybody come up with an appropiate caption, or shall we just let the picture speak for itself. -jma ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We Expertly Hunt Real Spies, Real Eavesdroppers, and Real Wiretappers. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 Web: http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 Email: mailto:jmatk@t... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- World Class, Professional, Ethical, and Competent Bug Sweeps, and Wiretap Detection using Sophisticated Laboratory Grade Test Equipment. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10692 From: Michael Dever Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:13pm Subject: Re: Inaugural Pictures Captions: "Keep looking, you'll find it!" "Looking for my weapon of mass destruction, heh heh heh!" On 21 Jan 2005, at 10:09, James M. Atkinson wrote: > > > Here is one of those secret Skull and Bones ceremonies > > http://conservativelife.com/blog/media/bushzipper.jpg > > Can anybody come up with an appropiate caption, or shall we just let > the > picture speak for itself. > > -jma > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------------- > We Expertly Hunt Real Spies, Real Eavesdroppers, and Real Wiretappers. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------------- > James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 > Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 > 127 Eastern Avenue #291 Web: > http://www.tscm.com/ > Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 Email: mailto:jmatk@t... > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------------- > World Class, Professional, Ethical, and Competent Bug Sweeps, and > Wiretap Detection using Sophisticated Laboratory Grade Test Equipment. > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------------------------- > > > > > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > =================================================== TSKS > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > Michael J. Dever CPP Dever Clark & Associates GPO Box 1163 Canberra ACT 2601 Australia Voice: +612 6254 5337 Email: dca@b... ************************************************************************ ***** This message is sent in strict confidence for the addressee only. It may contain legally privileged information. The contents are not to be disclosed to anyone other than the addressee. Unauthorised recipients are requested to preserve this confidentiality and to advise the sender immediately of any error in transmission. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10693 From: kondrak Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:20pm Subject: Wireless Security (OT but interesting) > > > January 20, 2005 New York Times > >WHAT'S NEXT > > > Cargo Containers' Electronic Sensor Says 'Do Not Disturb' > >By ANNE EISENBERG > >MILLIONS of cargo containers full of toys, TV's and other consumer >products stream into United States ports each year. But security experts >fear the metal boxes could also be used to transport dangerous freight: >terrorist weapons. > >Researchers are working on modifications to the rugged containers, >adding electronic monitoring that can keep track of intrusions once the >boxes are sealed at a factory and on their way by train, truck and ship. > >General Electric > > >is testing a palm-size security device with a built-in microprocessor >and radio. The device, which has been tried out on a handful of >containers traveling between China and California, generates a magnetic >field. > >If the doors of the container move, the field changes, and the >microprocessor keeps track of the disturbance. At a port or loading >dock, the containers can be queried by radio, delivering a record of any >intrusions. > >"The microprocessor is always monitoring the sensor," said James >Petrizzi, a vice president for engineering in General Electric's >security business, who helped develop and test the wireless system. > >In trials, the device communicated with fixed dockside readers, as well >as with hand-held readers that could communicate wirelessly. "The system >creates a large wireless network where we can interrogate the security >device on the container," Mr. Petrizzi said. The reader notes the time >and date of any incursions since the container was sealed. The >communication between the security device and the reader is encrypted. > >A major manufacturer of containers, the China International Marine >Containers Group, incorporated the sensor in 18 of its containers as >prototypes to use for the General Electric trials. > >"We did the trials to make sure that the container and the electronic >pack would not be damaged or give false alarms," said David Wong, chief >technical officer at the company, which is based in Shenzhen, near Hong >Kong. "It can be operated under the most severe conditions in adverse >environments." > >The security devices were originally developed by All Set Marine >Security, based in Bromma, Sweden, near Stockholm. All Set is licensing >the technology to G.E. In the future, two versions of the monitoring >device will be available, ones built into the doors of new containers >and ones that can be retrofitted on an interior door post of old >containers, said Walt Dixon, project leader for port and cargo security >at the General Electric Global Research Center in Niskayuna, N.Y. > >Stephen E. Flynn, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations >and an expert on cargo security, said devices like G.E.'s were essential >if containers were to be made smarter. Dr. Flynn is a retired commander >in the United States Coast Guard. > >There are millions of containers in circulation, he said, any one of >which could be used by terrorists as a Trojan horse. "But if I knew a >particular container had been tampered with," he said, "I could >intercept it without causing problems for everyone else." A suspect >container could be identified and isolated for inspection without >interrupting regular cargo operations. > >Smart containers would also be important in the aftermath of an attack, >he said, for forensic investigation. "If we had an Al Qaeda-style attack >at two ports at the same time," he said, "it would create uncertainty >about all containers," possibly bringing trade to a standstill. "But if >you could go back into the data and find where the boxes came from, you >could narrow down the set of problems," he said, without having to close >down the whole system. > >General Electric tested the system in the laboratory and at sea. "The >freight can be subject to enormous forces," Mr. Dixon said, for example, >if the containers are stacked up to eight high on deck and rolling >through 40-foot seas. The group tried a number of approaches to sensing >whether the container doors were open at sea, including a pressure >sensor. But in one storm the container flexed so much that the pressure >between the door and the door frame went to zero. > >"So we decided pressure was not a good sensor," he said. "The zero >reading would give us a false alarm in heavy seas." > >Instead, the device senses magnetic flux density between the frame and >the door of the container, said Russell Mortenson, chairman of All Set >Marine Security. "When the door moves, the magnetic field changes," he >said, "and we can determine the distance between the door and the door >frame quite accurately." > >The device is built to last for the life of the container, typically 10 >years, he said. > >To interrogate the sensor, the G.E. group built wireless readers with a >100-foot range at dockside and prototypes of hand-held readers with a >30-foot range. "In the future," Mr. Petrizzi said, "we'd like a >hand-held device the size of a flashlight to allow people to arm and >read the status of the device." > >Unisys > > >paid for some of the tests for the new system. "It was an opportunity to >look at the competing types of technology," said Greg J. Baroni, who is >president of the global public sector of Unisys. "This one is relatively >inexpensive compared to the alternatives," he said. One alternative is >Global Positioning System-based systems with satellite communication to >keep track of goods on route. > >David Schrier, lead author of a report on container security by ABI >Research of Oyster Bay, N.Y., said there would eventually be >government-mandated rules for smart containers. His company estimated >that more than seven million containers enter the United States annually. > >"Once that government mandate comes," he said, "the market will lose its >apprehension about the costs of smart containers" and start providing >minimum protection. "That may well be simple devices to tell if the >container has been opened or not." > >Dr. Flynn said money spent on ensuring the integrity of cargo shipments >was justified. "The costs to improve the odds of preventing an attack, >and, in the worst case, to prevent shutting the whole system down, are a >good payment to make." > >E-mail: Eisenberg@n... 10694 From: Leanardo Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:18pm Subject: Re: Inaugural Pictures I dont know which one bothers me more, the guy in thr front or the more "joyful" individual in the back... Bruce : ) --- In TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com, Michael Dever wrote: > Captions: > > "Keep looking, you'll find it!" > > "Looking for my weapon of mass destruction, heh heh heh!" > > > On 21 Jan 2005, at 10:09, James M. Atkinson wrote: > > > > > > > Here is one of those secret Skull and Bones ceremonies > > > > http://conservativelife.com/blog/media/bushzipper.jpg > > > > Can anybody come up with an appropiate caption, or shall we just let > > the > > picture speak for itself. > > > > -jma > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- > > ----------------------------- > > We Expertly Hunt Real Spies, Real Eavesdroppers, and Real Wiretappers. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- > > ----------------------------- > > James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 > > Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 > > 127 Eastern Avenue #291 Web: > > http://www.tscm.com/ > > Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 Email: mailto:jmatk@t... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- > > ----------------------------- > > World Class, Professional, Ethical, and Competent Bug Sweeps, and > > Wiretap Detection using Sophisticated Laboratory Grade Test Equipment. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- > > ----------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > ======================================================== > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > > =================================================== TSKS > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael J. Dever CPP > Dever Clark & Associates > GPO Box 1163 > Canberra ACT 2601 > Australia > Voice: +612 6254 5337 > Email: dca@b... > ********************************************************************** ** > ***** > This message is sent in strict confidence for the addressee only. > It may contain legally privileged information. The contents are not to > be disclosed to anyone other than the addressee. Unauthorised > recipients are requested to preserve this confidentiality and to advise > the sender immediately of any error in transmission. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10695 From: Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:15pm Subject: Re: Inaugural Pictures Yeap. Make sure it don't free-fall like Bill's Whooa there big fella ... Ted will take care of that end. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10696 From: kondrak Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:25pm Subject: RE: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment Yes, hasn't been a lot of TSCM stuff, so its a break from watching an empty mailbox.... At 13:06 1/20/2005, you wrote: >Don't we go through this about once a month or so? D K - it will play >itself out. >Strong opinions are hard to keep contained. Especially when articles sent >out are related to TSCM, but also personal freedom, and that sorta >off-topic thing. Then it goes to a tangent! > >- Matt > >-----Original Message----- >From: G P [mailto:telos888@y...] >Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2005 1:04 PM >To: TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com >Subject: RE: [TSCM-L] Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment > >Sounds like DK needs a hug. > >--- Riskbiz wrote: > > > I subscribed to this list to learn and educate > > myself about TSCM and asso > > fields, not listen to a bunch of > > psychotic/hysterical social/political > > commentary. Please stick to the topic or post > > elsewhere and stop filling my > > inbox with this crap. > > > > DK > > > > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > >It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, >the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. >It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >=================================================== TSKS > > > > _____ > >Yahoo! Groups Links >* To visit your group on the web, go to: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TSCM-L/ > >* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > >* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >Service . > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >=================================================== TSKS >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > 10697 From: kondrak Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:28pm Subject: RE: Privacy Activists Brace for White House Push to Augment Wholeheartedly agreed Matt, When they come for the 2nd Amendment, that's the trigger, and we all know it. Its the incrementalisim I worry about, the frog in the boiling water thing... At 12:46 1/20/2005, you wrote: >I agree with you to some point - there have always been conspiracies, and >total power is the aim. There's always the talk of the "shadow >government", and that the government in place really doesn't have any >power... alas, it's too much. >I believe that there's enough good people left in our great country to >stop any such state of totalitarianism from taking over. When the 2nd >amendment is trampled on, that truly is a problem as well - because that >takes a key power away from us, the power to defend ourselves. That's not >to disregard all the other rights we hold as free citizens, regarding free >speech, and one close to my heart, freedom of religion. But those are >intangibles, and can't actually be taken away by force (except from the >fainthearted). >The 2nd Amendment: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the >security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, >shall not be infringed." - - now that IS something that can physically be >taken away - and people take that lightly, citing "safety" as an excuse. > >I hold true as an idealist at heart that, "Once people have tasted freedom >they don't easily give it up." I know that will stand in our country >until... at least until Armageddon and the end of the world as we know it >is here. >Until then, I guess we have to carry n as normal - otherwise we'd die from >stress. 10698 From: kondrak Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:31pm Subject: Re: Inauguration Video Ha!! Great! At 14:02 1/20/2005, you wrote: >Let it load, even though it is 6 MB long > >http://movies.yahoo.com/movies/feature/jibjabinaugural.html > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >We Expertly Hunt Real Spies, Real Eavesdroppers, and Real Wiretappers. >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 > Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 > 127 Eastern Avenue #291 Web: http://www.tscm.com/ > Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 Email: mailto:jmatk@t... >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > World Class, Professional, Ethical, and Competent Bug Sweeps, and >Wiretap Detection using Sophisticated Laboratory Grade Test Equipment. >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >=================================================== TSKS >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > 10699 From: G P Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:49pm Subject: Analysis of the Skype Protocol From ./ today: http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~library/TR-repository/reports/reports-2004/cucs-039-04.pdf Looks like Skype is utilizing a STUN-variant, with RSA 1536-2048 bit encryption for the key material, and AES-256 for the transport layer. Heavy duty crypto. 10700 From: G P Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:52pm Subject: Re: Analysis of the Skype Protocol > From ./ today: /. rather (http://www.slashdot.org) 10701 From: Hawkspirit Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:57pm Subject: US bugs in the UN Does anyone have confirming information on this? Roger I was wondering if you were aware of the story that appeared in the German media, but was censored from the American News, about Condelezza Rice having had the CIA bug the offices of the UN Security Counsel members during the hearings on Iraq? She admitted it to Der Speigel reporters, but nothing was ever mentioned in this country. The bugs were found during a routine search by British MI6 and were quickly identified as being CIA. The CIA said that they were ordered by Rice to place the bugs. Rice's reply was "yeah, so what!" It never went any further. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 1/17/2005 10702 From: G P Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:15pm Subject: Re: US bugs in the UN Hey maybe Condi's not so bad after all ;) Why the heck would MI6 drop a dime on finding them, if this story is accurate? --- Hawkspirit wrote: > Does anyone have confirming information on this? > Roger > > I was wondering if you were aware of the story that > appeared in the > German media, but was censored from the American > News, about Condelezza > Rice having had the CIA bug the offices of the UN > Security Counsel > members during the hearings on Iraq? She admitted > it to Der Speigel > reporters, but nothing was ever mentioned in this > country. The bugs were > found during a routine search by British MI6 and > were quickly identified > as being CIA. The CIA said that they were ordered > by Rice to place the > bugs. Rice's reply was "yeah, so what!" It never > went any further. > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release > Date: 1/17/2005 > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> > What would our lives be like without music, dance, > and theater? > Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for > Good! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Tcy2bD/SOnJAA/cosFAA/UBhwlB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts > acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a > warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > =================================================== > TSKS > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > 10703 From: Ramon Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:53pm Subject: FBI abandons Carnivore wiretap software FBI abandons Carnivore wiretap software Commercial program, 3rd-party wiretaps now usedThe Associated Press Updated: 9:55 p.m. ET Jan. 18, 2005WASHINGTON - The FBI has effectively abandoned its custom-built Internet surveillance technology, once known as Carnivore, designed to read e-mails and other online communications among suspected criminals, terrorists and spies, according to bureau oversight reports submitted to Congress. Instead, the FBI said it has switched to unspecified commercial software to eavesdrop on computer traffic during such investigations and has increasingly asked Internet providers to conduct wiretaps on targeted customers on the government's behalf, reimbursing companies for their costs. The FBI performed only eight Internet wiretaps in fiscal 2003 and five in fiscal 2002; none used the software initially called Carnivore and later renamed the DCS-1000, according to FBI documents submitted to Senate and House oversight committees. The FBI, which once said Carnivore was "far better" than commercial products, said previously it had used the technology about 25 times between 1998 and 2000. 'We're using [commercially available software] more now and we're asking the Internet service providers that have the capabilities to collect data in compliance with court orders.' - Paul Bresson FBI spokesman The FBI said it could not disclose how much it spent to produce the surveillance software it no longer uses, saying part of its budget was classified. Outside experts said the government probably spent between $6 million and $15 million. The congressional oversight reports were obtained last week under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act by the Washington-based Electronic Privacy Information Center, a civil liberties group that criticized the surveillance software after it was first disclosed in 2000. Commercial alternatives FBI spokesman Paul Bresson said the bureau moved to popular commercial wiretap software because it was less expensive and had improved in its ability to copy e-mails and other communications of a targeted Internet account without affecting other subscribers. "We see the value in the commercially available software; we're using it more now and we're asking the Internet service providers that have the capabilities to collect data in compliance with court orders," Bresson said. The FBI said last week it was sending back to the drawing board its $170 million computer overhaul, which was intended to give agents and analysts an instantaneous and paperless way to manage criminal and terrorism cases. Related stories FBI may have to scrap new computer program From 2001: FBI software cracks encryption wall Experts said the life span of roughly four years for the bureau's homegrown surveillance technology was similar to the shelf life of cutting-edge products in private industry. "It's hard to criticize the FBI trying to keep pace with technology," said James Dempsey of the Washington-based Center for Democracy and Technology. "There is just a huge amount of innovation and development going on in the private sector." Henry H. Perritt Jr., who led an oversight study of Carnivore in 2000 for the Justice Department, said the FBI originally built its own surveillance system because commercial tools were inadequate. Perritt, a professor at the Chicago-Kent College of Law, said he was unaware of any commercial wiretap software that includes audit features robust enough to convince a federal judge that e-mails from innocent Internet users weren't captured by mistake. "You'd like to have a package that supervisors within a field office and in Washington could do an audit and make sure they're using the tools compliant with the court order," Perritt said. The FBI laboratory division, which produced Carnivore, was headed by Donald M. Kerr, who left the FBI in August 2001 to become the CIA's chief gadget-maker as head of its science and technology directorate. Kerr told lawmakers in 2000 that Carnivore was "far better than any commercially-available sniffer." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6841403/ 10704 From: Gregory Hicks Date: Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:16pm Subject: Re: US bugs in the UN > To: > From: "Hawkspirit" > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:57:55 -0800 > > Does anyone have confirming information on this? Roger > > I was wondering if you were aware of the story that appeared in the > German media, but was censored from the American News, about Condelezza > Rice having had the CIA bug the offices of the UN Security Counsel > members during the hearings on Iraq? She admitted it to Der Speigel > reporters, but nothing was ever mentioned in this country. The bugs were > found during a routine search by British MI6 and were quickly identified > as being CIA. The CIA said that they were ordered by Rice to place the > bugs. Rice's reply was "yeah, so what!" It never went any further. Actually, this is not 100% accurate. The story was on the front pages of the papers on the west coast, on the nightly news, and a few other news type places. The UN was apparently bugged but... It was quite a story for about 4 days. This was late last year... --------------------------------------------------------------------- I am perfectly capable of learning from my mistakes. I will surely learn a great deal today. "A democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding on what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the results of the decision." - Benjamin Franklin "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." --Alexander Hamilton 10705 From: A Grudko Date: Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:26am Subject: RE: McDonald's in Boca to offer glimpse into world of espionage -----Original Message----- From: James M. Atkinson [mailto:jmatk@t...] > Boca Raton · He's an international man of intrigue who's bringing some of the old trade secrets from the espionage world to, well, a McDonald's. Now if he could just put up a poster revealing what REALLY goes into 'The Colonel's 14 Secret Herbs and Spices' and the fabled Coca Cola recipe which it is rumoured even the KGB could not get (in a failed 70's attempt to copy the US brand into the Eastern block - they should have left the vodka out). Andy Grudko (British), DPM, Grad IS (South Africa) MIS/Grudko Associates, Est. 1981. PSIRA reg. No. 8642 www.grudko.com , agrudko@i... Pretoria HO (+27 12) 244 0255 - 244 0256 (Fax) Branches: Sandton (+27 11) 465 9673 - 465 1487 (Fax) Johannesburg (+27 11) 781 7206 - 781 7207(Fax) Mid Rand (+27 11) 318 1451 - 318 6846(Fax) Cellular (+27) 82 778 6355 - ICQ 146498943 SACI(Pres) SASA, IPA, WAD, CALI, UKPIN, IWWA. "When you need it done right - first time" [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10706 From: A Grudko Date: Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:27am Subject: wi-Fi ? clones LONDON, England -- "Evil twins" are the latest menace to threaten the security of Internet users, experts in the UK are warning. An "evil twin" is a bogus base station that latches on to someone using new "Wi-Fi" wireless technology. Victims think their laptops or mobile phones are connected to bona fide wireless internet connections. They may then transmit valuable bank details or other personal information, not suspecting that they are being intercepted by cybercriminals. Professor Brian Collins, from the Royal Military College of Science, Cranfield University, a former chief scientist at GCHQ -- the Government's secret eavesdropping station -- said: "Users need to be wary of not using their Wi-Fi enabled laptops or other portable devices in order to conduct financial transactions or anything that is of a sensitive personal nature, for fear of having disclosed this information to an unauthorised third party." Wireless devices link to the Internet via "hotspots" - nearby connection points that they lock on to. But these hotspots can act like an open door to thieves. Anyone with suitable equipment can locate a hotspot and take its place, substituting their own "evil twin." Dr. Phil Nobles, a wireless Internet and cybercrime expert at Cranfield University, said: "So-called 'evil twin' hotspots present a hidden danger for Web users. "In essence, users think they've logged on to a wireless hotspot connection when in fact they've been tricked to connect to the attacker's unauthorised base station. "The latter jams the connection to a legitimate base station by sending a stronger signal within close proximity to the wireless client -- thereby turning itself into an 'evil twin.' "Cybercriminals don't have to be that clever to carry out such an attack. Because wireless networks are based on radio signals they can be easily detected by unauthorised users tuning into the same channel hopping group. Unwitting web users are invited to log into the attacker's server with bogus login prompts, tempting them to give away sensitive information such as user names and passwords. Often users are unaware the have been duped until well after the incident has occurred. Dr. Nobles spelled out the warning at a wireless crime event held at the Dana Centre, the Science Museum's forum for discussing controversial science, in London. Lisa Jamieson, Head of Programmes at the Dana Centre, said: "Half of all business wireless networks in this country have inadequate security controls in place, making their information vulnerable to attack." --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.816 / Virus Database: 554 - Release Date: 2004/12/14