From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Wed Jan 24, 2001 8:03pm Subject: Re: LoJack System At 5:05 PM -0800 1/24/01, Dawn Star wrote: >Does anyone on the list know the typical location in the vehicle of >a LoJack auto theft transmitter, its general appearance and antenna >configuration? Thanks, Roger It usually interfaces though the AM/FM radio antenna, but the actual command module can be in any of 50 or more hidden locations. The fastest way to find one is to TDR the antenna (I use a 1502 with an impedance matching network), or use a SA connected to the vehicle antenna and look for IF/RF bleed. -jma -- ======================================================================= Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - George Orwell ======================================================================= James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... ======================================================================= The First, The Largest, The Most Popular, and The Most Complete TSCM, Technical Security, and Counterintelligence Site on the Internet. ======================================================================= 2373 From: Kohlenberg, Toby Date: Wed Jan 24, 2001 7:16pm Subject: Signal capturing for Wireless LAN protocol 802.11b Does anyone have experience with 802.11b wireless networks? I am looking for data on maximum distance from source that the signal can be picked up and/or transmitted from; How far away can you be and listen in AND How far away can you be and connect? Thanks, Toby All opinions stated are my own and in no way reflect the views of my employer Toby Kohlenberg, CISSP Intel Corporate Information Security STAT Team Information Security Specialist 503-264-9783 Office & Voicemail 877-497-1696 Pager "Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you." PGP Fingerprint: 92E2 E2FC BB8B 98CD 88FA 01A1 6E09 B5BA 9E84 9E70 2374 From: Andre Holmes <1ach@g...> Date: Wed Jan 24, 2001 10:21pm Subject: Bugging, spying and privacy - analysis by Dr Patrick Dixon, Global Change Ltd http://www.globalchange.com/bug.htm [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 2375 From: Miguel Puchol Date: Thu Jan 25, 2001 3:05am Subject: RE: Signal capturing for Wireless LAN protocol 802.11b Toby, Your questions depend, at the receiving side, on the sensitivity of the equipment used. Good directional antennas and good hardware will allow someone to receive the signals from much greater distances. Also take into account that buildings and other obstructions can block the signal and cause multipath interference which would thwart reception. With these type of wireless networks, the location of the hub's antenna is the determining factor. I've seen a network cover a large factory with a couple of well placed antennas. How far you can connect from will depend on the location of the hub's antenna, and your equipment's characteristics. A PC-Card interface has a poor performance antenna, and you can expect distances of around 100 to 150 meters in optimum conditions. PCI based cards with external antennas can achieve much greater distances, as the antenna can be located in an optimal position. I hope it helps, all the best, Mike > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Kohlenberg, Toby [mailto:toby.kohlenberg@i...] > Enviado el: jueves, 25 de enero de 2001 2:16 > Para: TSCM-L@egroups.com > Asunto: [TSCM-L] Signal capturing for Wireless LAN protocol 802.11b > > > Does anyone have experience with 802.11b wireless > networks? I am looking for data on maximum distance > from source that the signal can be picked up and/or > transmitted from; > How far away can you be and listen in > AND > How far away can you be and connect? > > Thanks, > Toby > > All opinions stated are my own and in no way reflect the views of my > employer > > Toby Kohlenberg, CISSP > Intel Corporate Information Security > STAT Team > Information Security Specialist > 503-264-9783 Office & Voicemail > 877-497-1696 Pager > "Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you." > > PGP Fingerprint: > 92E2 E2FC BB8B 98CD 88FA 01A1 6E09 B5BA 9E84 9E70 > > > > > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... > =================================================== TSKS > > 2376 From: William Knowles Date: Thu Jan 25, 2001 3:45am Subject: Re: Signal capturing for Wireless LAN protocol 802.11b On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Kohlenberg, Toby wrote: Toby, If this is an area of continuing interest for you and your organization, You might want to jump on a few of the wireless mailing lists, One I highly recommend is the one site run by Brewster Kahle. Its an absolute goldmine of information on IEEE 802.11 networks. http://www.sflan.com Cheers! William Knowles wk@c... > Does anyone have experience with 802.11b wireless networks? I am > looking for data on maximum distance from source that the signal > can be picked up and/or transmitted from; > > How far away can you be and listen in > AND > How far away can you be and connect? *==============================================================* "Communications without intelligence is noise; Intelligence without communications is irrelevant." Gen Alfred. M. Gray, USMC ================================================================ C4I.org - Computer Security, & Intelligence - http://www.c4i.org *==============================================================* 2377 From: Dragos Ruiu Date: Thu Jan 25, 2001 6:29am Subject: Re: Signal capturing for Wireless LAN protocol 802.11b On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, William Knowles wrote: > If this is an area of continuing interest for you and your > organization, You might want to jump on a few of the wireless mailing > lists, One I highly recommend is the one site run by Brewster Kahle. > Its an absolute goldmine of information on IEEE 802.11 networks. > http://www.sflan.com The original question was how far away you have to be to connect. As related to me by others who have done the testing in urban environments rather than my own first hand measurements, the physical distance is highly dependent on the signal reflective surfaces and local environment. Walk around with your laptop and play with its orientation, by receiving the appropriate multipath reflected signal you can achieve connections that would otherwise not seem feasible. The snide answer to the original distance question: Your mileage may vary. Some good 802.11 sites are also: http://www.palowireless.com/i802_11/ http://www.wireless-nets.com/whitepaper_overview_80211.htm url: http://www.niksula.cs.hut.fi/~mkomu/docs/wirelesslansec.html http://isds.bus.lsu.edu/fall98/7520/WirelessLANs/audit.htm http://www.tml.hut.fi/Studies/Tik-110.300/1999/Wireless/vulnerability_4.html cheers, --dr P.s. I've heard it said that in many city cores you can get some to some pretty interesting things just by walking around with a laptop and a Wavelan card. :-) -- Dragos Ruiu dursec.com ltd. / kyx.net - we're from the future gpg/pgp key on file at wwwkeys.pgp.net Email dr@k... for info about CanSecWest/core01 March 28-30, Vancouver B.C. Speakers: Renaud Deraison/Nessus Attack Scanner, Martin Roesch/Snort//Advanced IDS, Ron Gula/Enterasys/IDS Evasion, Dug Song/Arbor Networks/Monkey in the Middle, RFP/Whisker2.0 and other fun, Mixter/2XS/Distributed Apps, Theo DeRaadt/OpenBSD, K2/w00w00/ADMutate, HD Moore/Digital Defense/Making NT Bleed, Frank Heidt/@Stake, Matthew Franz/Cisco/Trinux/Security Models, Fyodor/insecure.org/Network Mapping, Lance Spitzner/Sun/Honeynet Fun, Robert Graham/NetworkICE/IDS Technology Demo, Kurt Seifried/SecurityPortal/Crypto: 2-Edged Sword, Dave Dittrich/UW/Forensics, Sebastien Lacoste-Seris/COLT Telecom AG/securite.org/Kerberized SSH Deployment, Jay Beale/MandrakeSoft/Bastille-Linux/Securing Linux 2378 From: Paolo Sfriso Date: Thu Jan 25, 2001 2:17am Subject: NLJD Use in EOD Dear Collegues. I'm looking for material and opinions in the use of a NLJD in EOD inspections. Basically, what are the possibilities that the transmitted signial could trigger the device ? Paul Sfriso Director GRUPPO S.I.T. Security, Investigations & Tecnology Quarto d'Altino, Venice ITALY phone +39 0422 828517 fax +39 0422 823224 24hr GSM cellphone +39 (0)335 5257308 paulsfriso@t... www.grupposit.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 2379 From: Dawn Star Date: Thu Jan 25, 2001 10:10am Subject: LoJack System The fastest way to find one is to TDR the antenna (I use a 1502 with an impedance matching network), or use a SA connected to the vehicle antenna and look for IF/RF bleed. -jma They only transmit when activated so there would be no emission in its normal sleeping status right? Roger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 2380 From: Rob Muessel Date: Thu Jan 25, 2001 10:09am Subject: Re: NLJD Use in EOD Dear Paolo, et al: I'm not aware of any published data on using an NLJD for EOD or IED activities, but I spent many years with Information Security Associates (ISA), the manufacturers of the Boomerang model and have some first-hand experience. There has been a fair amount of interest in using NLJDs for this type of activity. One of the US military branches that does lots of research into EOD evaluated ISA's NJD-5 and found it to be very effective. Various agencies within the government of India have also evaluated the product and found it to be very satisfactory for both EOD and IED use. Your question regarding the transmitted is one of the great concerns of any EOD technician. Most NLJDs on the market today have too much power, according to the evaluations. Audiotel's SuperBroom Plus has 3 watts. REI's Orion has at least 1 watt (besides not being rugged enough for this type of application), and several made in Russia have up to 25 watts. All triggered devices during testing. ISA's NJD-5 has 500 milliwatts (maximum). This power level was found to be low enough to not cause triggering. In evaluating NLJDs for this application, the critical specification is not the power output, but the sensitivity of the receiver. Unfortunately, it is the hardest specification to define and to verify. With IED detection, the detected device might be a timer circuit or a radio receiver for remote activation. With EOD, the target is likely to be the triggering mechanism itself. In either case, the stronger the transmitted signal, the more likely it is that the IED's receiver could become saturated and trigger or enough current could be induced in the trigger to cause it to fire. The EOD evaluations showed that the ISA NJD-5 with the lowest power output had the greatest detection distance. I don't mean this to be a sales pitch, I'm only relating what the test results show. Do not rely on published specifications. Field testing is the only way to conclusively determine which products work best. Good luck with your project. -- Rob Muessel, Director email: rmuessel@t... TSCM Technical Services Phone: 203-354-9040 11 Bayberry Lane Fax: 203-354-9041 Norwalk, CT 06851 USA 2381 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Thu Jan 25, 2001 11:35am Subject: Re: NLJD Use in EOD At 11:09 AM -0500 1/25/01, Rob Muessel wrote: >Dear Paolo, et al: > >I'm not aware of any published data on using an NLJD for EOD or IED >activities, but I spent many years with Information Security Associates >(ISA), the manufacturers of the Boomerang model and have some first-hand >experience. I understand that ATF has done a great deal of research on the matter, and has several advisories/techniques on the matter. Also, the NATO humanitarian folks (de-mining folks) have published several items regarding finding "plastic mines" using the Superscout, Locator and ORION. The biggest problem to-date is that NLJD were designed to be used in officer environment, and not taken out into the field. Somebody needs to come out with a more rugged design. >There has been a fair amount of interest in using NLJDs for this type of >activity. One of the US military branches that does lots of research >into EOD evaluated ISA's NJD-5 and found it to be very effective. >Various agencies within the government of India have also evaluated the >product and found it to be very satisfactory for both EOD and IED use. I know of several dozen government agencies worldwide who have been grabbing up NLJD's over the past couple of years just for EOD, IED, and mine location. >Your question regarding the transmitted is one of the great concerns of >any EOD technician. Most NLJDs on the market today have too much power, >according to the evaluations. Audiotel's SuperBroom Plus has 3 watts. >REI's Orion has at least 1 watt (besides not being rugged enough for >this type of application), and several made in Russia have up to 25 >watts. All triggered devices during testing. I have personally seen, handled, and examined a Chinese unit that applied over 300 watts to the head, and Soviet unit that applied over 100 watts to the head. I did some experiments a few years back where I exposed unshielded electrical matches with an un-terminated 12 inch or less pigtail to various levels of RF energy used by the more popular NLJD's. The results were most illuminating (no pun intended) when the pigtail was trimmed for resonance relative to the NLJD illumination frequency (a loud noise was created). Once you generate anything more then a few hundred milli-watts off the head you highly risk detonating the suspect device. The only problems I have had with the ORION was with the *&*## contacts oxidizing, but I prefer it over the other units I own or have used. The ORION is OK due to the adjustable power levels, but I would wants to push anything higher then the 14mW setting when check for devices (of course in TSCM you would normally start at the lowest settings and work your way up with over lapping coverage). >ISA's NJD-5 has 500 milliwatts (maximum). This power level was found to >be low enough to not cause triggering. Er... OK, but only if the blasting cap is shielded...Since most improvised explosive devices lack shielding (as in low metal content amatuer devices) they would be very vulnerable to detonation (or deflagration if a high order explosive was not used) > >In evaluating NLJDs for this application, the critical specification is >not the power output, but the sensitivity of the receiver. >Unfortunately, it is the hardest specification to define and to verify. >With IED detection, the detected device might be a timer circuit or a >radio receiver for remote activation. With EOD, the target is likely to >be the triggering mechanism itself. In either case, the stronger the >transmitted signal, the more likely it is that the IED's receiver could >become saturated and trigger or enough current could be induced in the >trigger to cause it to fire. Which is why is is very beneficial for an EOD team to have a spectrum analyser, several wave-guides, and some close field probes (and a good LNA). If the bomb has some electronic content (ie: a timing mechanism) you should be able to pickup on the electrical and magnetic fields it emits once you or the robot gets close to the device.. You right on target about the secret being in the receiver circuits, and that power levels must be a secondary priority. > The EOD evaluations showed that the ISA NJD-5 with the lowest power >output had the greatest detection distance. I don't mean this to be a >sales pitch, I'm only relating what the test results show. Do not rely >on published specifications. Field testing is the only way to >conclusively determine which products work best. I agree, the ISA NJD-5 is a good unit, and that field testing is the best way to go. >Good luck with your project. > >-- >Rob Muessel, Director email: rmuessel@t... >TSCM Technical Services Phone: 203-354-9040 >11 Bayberry Lane Fax: 203-354-9041 >Norwalk, CT 06851 >USA -- ======================================================================= Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - George Orwell ======================================================================= James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... ======================================================================= The First, The Largest, The Most Popular, and The Most Complete TSCM, Technical Security, and Counterintelligence Site on the Internet. ======================================================================= 2382 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Thu Jan 25, 2001 11:44am Subject: Re: LoJack System At 8:10 AM -0800 1/25/01, Dawn Star wrote: >The fastest way to find one is to TDR the antenna (I use a 1502 with >an impedance matching network), or use a SA connected to the vehicle >antenna and look for IF/RF bleed. > >-jma > >They only transmit when activated so there would be no emission in >its normal sleeping status right? Roger No, you are poking around looking for the connection into the antenna wiring. Also, even if the unit is "sleeping" there will be a small amount of detectable emissions. The secret to finding a Lo-Jack beacon is knowing WHERE to physically look in the vehicle, what frequencies to watch, and the electrical anomalies it creates in the vehicle wiring. But then of course we are in the business of finding bugs, not pinching cars. The beacons tend to be installed into three major "zones" in the vehicle, and any TSCM project will turn up these little puppies with no problem as these 'zones" are always checked in detail during any vehicle sweep. -jma -- ======================================================================= Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - George Orwell ======================================================================= James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... ======================================================================= The First, The Largest, The Most Popular, and The Most Complete TSCM, Technical Security, and Counterintelligence Site on the Internet. ======================================================================= 2383 From: Kohlenberg, Toby Date: Thu Jan 25, 2001 10:03am Subject: RE: Signal capturing for Wireless LAN protocol 802.11b Thanks all for the responses. I am thinking more in terms of using non-standard equipment to take advantage of poor signal control and listen in or connect from a long distance. I figure the people doing this will not be using standard WLAN cards. t > -----Original Message----- > From: Dragos Ruiu [mailto:dr@k...] > Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2001 4:29 AM > To: William Knowles; Kohlenberg, Toby > Cc: TSCM-L@egroups.com > Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] Signal capturing for Wireless LAN > protocol 802.11b > > > On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, William Knowles wrote: > > If this is an area of continuing interest for you and your > > organization, You might want to jump on a few of the > wireless mailing > > lists, One I highly recommend is the one site run by Brewster Kahle. > > Its an absolute goldmine of information on IEEE 802.11 networks. > > http://www.sflan.com > > > The original question was how far away you have to be to connect. > As related to me by others who have done the testing in urban > environments > rather than my own first hand measurements, the physical > distance is highly > dependent on the signal reflective surfaces and local environment. > > Walk around with your laptop and play with its orientation, > by receiving the > appropriate multipath reflected signal you can achieve > connections that > would otherwise not seem feasible. The snide answer to the > original distance > question: Your mileage may vary. > > Some good 802.11 sites are also: > > http://www.palowireless.com/i802_11/ > > http://www.wireless-nets.com/whitepaper_overview_80211.htm > > url: http://www.niksula.cs.hut.fi/~mkomu/docs/wirelesslansec.html > > http://isds.bus.lsu.edu/fall98/7520/WirelessLANs/audit.htm > > http://www.tml.hut.fi/Studies/Tik-110.300/1999/Wireless/vulner ability_4.html cheers, --dr P.s. I've heard it said that in many city cores you can get some to some pretty interesting things just by walking around with a laptop and a Wavelan card. :-) -- Dragos Ruiu dursec.com ltd. / kyx.net - we're from the future gpg/pgp key on file at wwwkeys.pgp.net Email dr@k... for info about CanSecWest/core01 March 28-30, Vancouver B.C. Speakers: Renaud Deraison/Nessus Attack Scanner, Martin Roesch/Snort//Advanced IDS, Ron Gula/Enterasys/IDS Evasion, Dug Song/Arbor Networks/Monkey in the Middle, RFP/Whisker2.0 and other fun, Mixter/2XS/Distributed Apps, Theo DeRaadt/OpenBSD, K2/w00w00/ADMutate, HD Moore/Digital Defense/Making NT Bleed, Frank Heidt/@Stake, Matthew Franz/Cisco/Trinux/Security Models, Fyodor/insecure.org/Network Mapping, Lance Spitzner/Sun/Honeynet Fun, Robert Graham/NetworkICE/IDS Technology Demo, Kurt Seifried/SecurityPortal/Crypto: 2-Edged Sword, Dave Dittrich/UW/Forensics, Sebastien Lacoste-Seris/COLT Telecom AG/securite.org/Kerberized SSH Deplonet Jay Beale/MandrakeSoft/Bastille-Linux/Securing Linux 2384 From: Thomas H. Jones Date: Thu Jan 25, 2001 5:30pm Subject: RE: Digest Number 492 Dear Rob Muessel, I know that this is not the place for marketing and I will appologize up front. But I feel the need to respond when our equipment is slandered. >Your question regarding the transmitted is one of the great concerns of >any EOD technician. Most NLJDs on the market today have too much power, >according to the evaluations. Audiotel's SuperBroom Plus has 3 watts. >REI's Orion has at least 1 watt (besides not being rugged enough for >this type of application), and several made in Russia have up to 25 >watts. All triggered devices during testing. We are not aware of any testing that has ever been done inwhich the ORION has caused a detonation. The Government of India did some testing last October, and the rumor is that the Audiotel unit caused an explosion, but I only heard this from our agent in India. The documented results of this test are considered classified by the government of India, and I have no documented results. But, I do know that the ORION was not part of the testing, but the Russian unit (NR-900 at 150 watts) was included. I am very curious as to where Rob Meusal got his data. Also, it should be noted that building equipment to look like it was manufactured in the 50's does not necessarily make it more rugged. Other then the slip ring contacts mentioned below and adding a plastic cover on the antenna head for people that like to "sand" the wall, we have not had the need to make any further modifications for ruggedness. But we have had many customers tell us how effective their sweeps have become because they were able to use their NLJD for longer than 15 minutes without becoming exhausted. Another important issue that should be considered is the ERP peak and the ERP average. Except for the ORION and the Russian units, most NLJD's are CW in nature providing continuous power. The ORION is a pulsed unit with a very low duty cycle so that the average power is much less than the ISA Boomerang average power and below the FCC legal limit. This is why the ORION is so much smaller then the Boomarang. Also, the ORION output power is fully adjustable from 14mwatts to 1.4 watts peak power. Our friends in India tell us that this is a very positive aspect of the design when using a unit for EOD. Furthermore, the ORION has a more sensitive receiver and has a built-in DSP function to increase sensitivity beyond the technology of the receiver. >The only problems I have had with the ORION was with the *&*## >contacts oxidizing, but I prefer it over the other units I own or >have used. I am sorry for your oxidizing problem. We have made a modification on the contact and slip-ring assembly. If you are still having any problem, please send us the unit and we will upgrade it free of charge. Regards, Tom Jones REI General Manager 2385 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Thu Jan 25, 2001 9:12pm Subject: RE: Digest Number 492 - NLJD Issues At 5:30 PM -0600 1/25/01, Thomas H. Jones wrote: >Dear Rob Muessel, > >I know that this is not the place for marketing and I will appologize up >front. But I feel the need to respond when our equipment is slandered. [Moderator Steps Up on His Soapbox] If the subject involves TSCM equipment, TSCM methods, TSCM issues and related subjects that it is completely appropriate for this forum. I found the materials posted by both Rob and Tom to be quite appropriate, and wish more list members would post similar materials. Occasional marketing is ok, and occasional product announcements are encouraged but temper it with good judgement and lets keep it technical. -jma [Moderator Shuts Up] -- ======================================================================= Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - George Orwell ======================================================================= James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... ======================================================================= The First, The Largest, The Most Popular, and The Most Complete TSCM, Technical Security, and Counterintelligence Site on the Internet. ======================================================================= 2386 From: Rob Muessel Date: Fri Jan 26, 2001 8:29am Subject: Re: Digest Number 492 - NLJD Issues Ah, the voice of reason. Jim, you are entirely correct. I was responding as one who had been involved with assisting in the evaluation of NJDs for this application. Having been present at some of the testing and evaluation overseas and in Maryland, I was detailing what I had seen and what results had been communicated to me. Let me state that I have no connection to or relationship with any equipment manufacturer, so I don't need to need to push anyone's product. I'm only relating professional experience. If there is any offense created, it is unintentional and I do apologize for it. In closing, regardless of which NJD might be used for EOD applications, there is no way I'd want to be the guy who is holding onto the antenna. At least not without my earplugs. -- Rob Muessel, Director email: rmuessel@t... TSCM Technical Services Phone: 203-354-9040 11 Bayberry Lane Fax: 203-354-9041 Norwalk, CT 06851 USA 2387 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Fri Jan 26, 2001 9:32am Subject: Fire authorities in California.... Fire authorities in California found a corpse in a burned out section of forest while assessing the damage done by a forest fire..The deceased male was dressed in a full wet suit, complete with SCUBA tanks on his back, flippers, and face mask. A post-mortem revealed that the person died not from burns, but from massive internal injuries. Dental records provided a positive identification. Investigators then set about to determine how a fully clad diver ended up in the middle of a forest fire.. It was revealed that, on the day of the fire, the person went for a diving trip off the coast some 20 miles away from the forest. The firefighters, seeking to control the fire as quickly as possible, called in a fleet of helicopters with very large dip buckets. Water was dipped from the ocean then flown to the forest fire and emptied..You guessed it. One minute our diver was making like Flipper in the Pacific, the next he was doing the breast stroke in a fire dip bucket 300 feet in the air. Apparently he extinguished exactly 5'-10" of the fire. Some days it just doesn't pay to get out of bed! This article was taken from the California Examiner, March 20, 1998 -- ======================================================================= Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - George Orwell ======================================================================= James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... ======================================================================= The First, The Largest, The Most Popular, and The Most Complete TSCM, Technical Security, and Counterintelligence Site on the Internet. ======================================================================= 2388 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Fri Jan 26, 2001 9:44am Subject: In-Flight Safety Lecture Occasionally, airline attendants make an effort to make the "in-flight safety lecture" and their other announcements a bit more entertaining. Here are some real examples that have been heard or reported: After landing: "Thank you for flying Delta Business Express. We hope you enjoyed giving us the business as much as we enjoyed taking you for a ride." As the plane landed and was coming to a stop at Washington National, a lone voice came over the loudspeaker: "Whoa, big fella. WHOA!" In the event of a sudden loss of cabin pressure, margarine cups will descend from the ceiling. Stop screaming, grab the mask, and pull it over your face. If you have a small child traveling with you, secure your mask before assisting with theirs. If you are traveling with more than one small child ...pick your favorite. Weather at our destination is 50 degrees with some broken clouds, but we'll try to have them fixed before we arrive. Thank you, and remember, nobody loves you, or your money, more than Southwest Airlines." "Your seat cushions can be used for flotation, and in the event of an emergency water landing, please paddle to shore and take them with our compliments." "As you exit the plane, make sure to gather all of your belongings. Anything left behind will be distributed evenly among the flight attendants. Please do not leave children or spouses." Another flight attendant's comment on a less than perfect landing: "We ask you to please remain seated as Captain Kangaroo bounces us to the terminal." Part of a flight attendant's arrival announcement: "We'd like to thank you folks for flying with us today. And, the next time you get the urge to go blasting through the skies in a pressurized metal tube, we hope you'll think of us here at US Airways." -- ======================================================================= Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - George Orwell ======================================================================= James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... ======================================================================= The First, The Largest, The Most Popular, and The Most Complete TSCM, Technical Security, and Counterintelligence Site on the Internet. ======================================================================= 2389 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Fri Jan 26, 2001 10:07am Subject: REAL MASTER SERGEANTS: REAL MASTER SERGEANTS: 1. Can cuss for ten minutes without ever repeating a word. 2. Have a spine. 3. Can play a cherry Lieutenant like a finely tuned instrument. 4. Can see in the Dark. 5. Have eyes in the back of their heads. 6. Still don't trust the Russians or Germans 7. Still hate the French. 8. Don't know or care how to be politically correct. 9. Don't give a damn about being politically correct. 10. Think that "politically correct" should fall under S### in the UCMJ. 11. Love deployments because there is less paperwork and more"real work." 12. Can run 5 miles with a hangover. 13. Do not fear women in the military. 14. Would like to date G. I. Jane. 15. Still know how to use a floor buffer. 16. Can tell you anything you want to know about an M1911A1 although they are no longer in the inventory. 17. Believe that they do have a rendezvous with destiny. 18. Believe that " Nuts" wasn't all that Brigadier General McAuliffe said to the Germans at Bastogne. 19. Don't know how to use a "stress card". 20. Idolize John Wayne. 21. Don't believe that AAFES really needs a"commander". 22. Would have paid money to see Custer getting his clock cleaned. 24. Know how to properly construct a field latrine. 25. Might admire the Germans, but still realize they got their butts kicked. Twice. 26. Aren't afraid of the Chinese, who probably don't have enough rowboats to invade Taiwan. 27. Would rather be OPFOR than MOPP 4. 28. Don't believe a darn thing the Iraqis say. 29. Don't need a GPS to find themselves. 30. Have enough BDU's in their closet to start a surplus store. 31. Think that MRE's taste good (with a little hot sauce). 32. Are convinced that "wall-to-wall"counseling really works. 33. Have more time on the front-line than most others have in the chow line. 34. Know how to make coffee when the measuring scoop goes missing. 35. Know that it's not good coffee when you can see through it. 36. Don't blame poor marksmanship on their M-16. 37. Know that inept leaders will always say they have inept soldiers. -- ======================================================================= Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - George Orwell ======================================================================= James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... ======================================================================= The First, The Largest, The Most Popular, and The Most Complete TSCM, Technical Security, and Counterintelligence Site on the Internet. ======================================================================= 2390 From: Andre Holmes <1ach@g...> Date: Fri Jan 26, 2001 0:02pm Subject: Fw: History of a SPY ----- Original Message ----- From: Andre Holmes To: TSCM-L@egroups Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 12:59 PM Subject: History of a SPY Greetings I found this web site http://www.Tomlinson.ru while surfing the latest news from around the world. The book is banned in several countries including the USA. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 2391 From: Kevin D. Murray Date: Fri Jan 26, 2001 0:19pm Subject: Re: Fw: History of a SPY $30 at Amazon http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0970554788/counterespionage Andre Holmes wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Andre Holmes > To: TSCM-L@egroups > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 12:59 PM > Subject: History of a SPY > > Greetings > > I found this web site http://www.Tomlinson.ru while surfing the > latest news from around the world. > > The book is banned in several countries including the USA. 2392 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Fri Jan 26, 2001 2:29pm Subject: DARWIN AWARDS DARWIN AWARDS HONOR THE REMAINS of those who gave their lives in a single-minded effort to improve our gene pool. This month we have a few short Darwins and a bundle of Honorable Mentions and Personal Accounts. Enjoy! "A 27-year-old FBI agent fell to his death when he accidentally piloted a powerful speedboat over 165-foot high dam in Arkansas. "A woman chasing a rat with a lit roll of paper set her bed ablaze and narrowly escaped from her smoke-filled apartment with her life at the Royal Beechnut Apartments in Houston." ABC13 and KTRK, Texas "An off-duty Los Angeles police officer accidentally shot himself while cleaning his gun, and was treated for a groin injury at a nearby hospital." "People injured or killed in the Michigan firearms deer season include a Bay City man shot in the leg while trying to photograph his dog holding a rifle, which accidentally went off." 28 November 2000, Michigan Live WEST VIRGINIA ALIBI -- Honorable Mention Confirmed True A Charleston bank robber's alibi for the crime placed him in hot water when he claimed to be buying heroin in another state at the time of the robbery. He gave them a hotel receipt and police searched the room to find 84 packets of heroin. Police decline to comment on Donald's fate. MEDIEVAL STORY -- 2001 Urban Legend As related by Tamas Polgar, who says, "During the late medieval years in Hungary, one of the oldest legends in our country took place. It may even be true." The city Paks (pronounced pa:ksh) was a little village in the 1600s and today is a small city boasting Hungary's single nuclear plant. In the past, the village had trouble with a neighboring village. They kept sending their cows to graze on Paks land, and vice-versa, knowing my ancestors. Once a foreigner attacked the Paks herdsman, beat him badly, and confiscated his cows. But this was not just any herdsman, it was the son of the mayor! The people of Paks took up arms - or rather, work tools they could wield as arms. The result was a small battle between the two villages, in which dozens of peasants bit the dust. The brave Paks army retreated in defeat. The mayor of Paks, undaunted, ordered his men to fabricate a cannon to blast the enemy to smithereens. It was easier to order it than to do so, as they did not have the necessary tools and materials to build a cannon. "No matter," said the wise mayor, "Chop a tree down, and create the cannon from its trunk!" During the night the people of Paks created the first wooden cannon in history, ready for deployment. They towed it up a nearby hill, and the entire village gathered around to watch the victory. The Gunmaster loaded the cannon with gunpowder, put a large rock projectile in the barrel, pointed the weapon towards the enemy village and fired it... KABOOMM!! Twenty people near the cannon died, and many others were seriously wounded. However the mayor survived, and immediately issued a victory message for his people, saying: "If we have so many dead, how many can there be of the enemy?" -- ======================================================================= Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - George Orwell ======================================================================= James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... ======================================================================= The First, The Largest, The Most Popular, and The Most Complete TSCM, Technical Security, and Counterintelligence Site on the Internet. ======================================================================= 2393 From: Robert G. Ferrell Date: Fri Jan 26, 2001 3:19pm Subject: Have Ion Trail, Will Bounce This phenomenon used to irritate me when I was doing radio wave propagation stuff for science fairs in junior high school. I had no idea it was so commercial... ;-) http://www.starcomwireless.com/technology/articlereader.asp?tf=StarCom_Technology.txt Cheers, RGF Robert G. Ferrell, CISSP Information Systems Security Officer National Business Center U. S. Dept. of the Interior Robert_G_Ferrell@n... ======================================== Who goeth without humor goeth unarmed. ======================================== 2394 From: Miguel Puchol Date: Fri Jan 26, 2001 4:06pm Subject: RE: DARWIN AWARDS Is there a web site for the Darwin Awards? > -----Mensaje original----- > De: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng [mailto:jmatk@t...] > Enviado el: viernes, 26 de enero de 2001 21:30 > Para: TSCM-L Mailing List > Asunto: [TSCM-L] DARWIN AWARDS > 2395 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Fri Jan 26, 2001 4:12pm Subject: RE: DARWIN AWARDS At 11:06 PM +0100 1/26/01, Miguel Puchol wrote: >Is there a web site for the Darwin Awards? yes.... http://www.nipc.gov/ -jma -- ======================================================================= Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - George Orwell ======================================================================= James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... ======================================================================= The First, The Largest, The Most Popular, and The Most Complete TSCM, Technical Security, and Counterintelligence Site on the Internet. ======================================================================= 2396 From: Miguel Puchol Date: Fri Jan 26, 2001 4:19pm Subject: RE: Fire authorities in California.... That's no joke! A few years back, we had a similar case, but involving a seaplane, more exactly a Canadair CL-215, operated then by the Spanish AF, now by a private company. They have to pick up water on the move, by lowering a scoop into the sea or lake while flying about 2-3 feet above it, loading some 3.000 liters (about 750 gallons, don't ask wether US or UK) each go, and in one of the passes over the coastline, an extra diver. This one also had full SCUBA gear on. This fire was close to home, so I was involved with the local FD in the effort to control the fire, and we heard the report over the radio when they found the guy. I would also propose the theory that SCUBA divers are a rather poor way to extinguish forest fires, based on these two examples. Never mind, try with lawyers (sorry, couldn't help it!) Cheers, Mike > -----Mensaje original----- > De: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng [mailto:jmatk@t...] > Enviado el: viernes, 26 de enero de 2001 16:33 > Para: TSCM-L Mailing List > Asunto: [TSCM-L] Fire authorities in California.... > > > > Fire authorities in California found a corpse in a burned out section of > forest while assessing the damage done by a forest fire..The deceased male > was dressed in a full wet suit, complete with SCUBA tanks on his back, > flippers, and face mask. A post-mortem revealed that the person died not > from burns, but from massive internal injuries. Dental records provided a > positive identification. Investigators then set about to determine how a > fully clad diver ended up in the middle of a forest fire.. > It was revealed that, on the day of the fire, the person went for a diving > trip off the coast some 20 miles away from the forest. The firefighters, > seeking to control the fire as quickly as possible, called in a fleet of > helicopters with very large dip buckets. > Water was dipped from the ocean then flown to the forest fire and > emptied..You guessed it. One minute our diver was making like Flipper in > the Pacific, the next he was doing the breast stroke in a fire dip bucket > 300 feet in the air. Apparently he extinguished exactly 5'-10" > of the fire. > Some days it just doesn't pay to get out of bed! > > This article was taken from the California Examiner, March 20, 1998 > -- > > ======================================================================= > Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? > "In a time of universal deceit, telling the > truth is a revolutionary act" - George Orwell > ======================================================================= > James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 > Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 > 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ > Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... > ======================================================================= > The First, The Largest, The Most Popular, and The Most Complete TSCM, > Technical Security, and Counterintelligence Site on the Internet. > ======================================================================= > > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... > =================================================== TSKS > > 2397 From: Steve Whitehead Date: Fri Jan 26, 2001 11:51am Subject: TSCM Practitioners in Ohio Hi A Captain Bruce Contos from Jerusalem Ohio is retiring soon from Law Enforcement and is considering starting a debugging business. He asked for advice and we gave him some pros and cons, recommending that he get to know the professional TSCM service providers in OHIO. His e-mail address is (dustybrandy@1...) TSCM practitioners in that part of the US can mail him with their details. Best Regards Steve Whitehead Managing Member TSCM Services cc Tel (012) 664-3157 Fax (012) 664-3180 International (+2712) URL http://www.tscm.co.za E-mail sceptre@m... P O Box 16063, Lyttelton, 0140, Centurion, South Africa [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 2398 From: Shawn Hughes Date: Fri Jan 26, 2001 3:36pm Subject: EOD uses for NLJD I've been reading the posts on this subject with great interest. As a practicing bomb technician here in the US, I try to keep abreast of anything that might be of use to us. I recall some testing done by Sandia and NAVSCHOLEOD at Indian Head on the NLJD, but I believe that the consensus was that the price per unit versus actual applicability made them a poor choice. I know some Fed PSBT units that have them, but what they do with their end-of-FY money's their business! The problem is twofold: the search for bombs strongly parallels the search for surveillance devices. The chief difference lies in that while both use similar searching techniques and manpower, a bomb search always is time - constrained. Having been attached to two VIPPSA's, even though it appears there are a multitude of personnel, the truth is that the Secret Service runs light. This means that precious time might be squandered on the NLJD, which will not detect the majority of IED's which are of the MT (mechanical timed) variety. This is also why very little TSCM gear is used. A lot of high - end units carry near - field receivers and wide - spectrum jammers, but that's about the extent. The other problem is that the majority of ET devices use timers similar to a digital watch. This means that it would take very little radiated RF to potentially cause a premature functioning of the device. Which is good, because you accomplish your mission ( no dead VIP), but it's also bad ( you're dead). Mr. Atkinson is dead on about RF and blasting caps. However, caps are usually more sensitive to RF than matches, making them that much more susceptible. ( A good try - it - yourself test is to substitute a grain of wheat lamp for the cap. Even a child's walkie talkie can illuminate the lamp with correctly tuned leg wires!) However, using TSCM on a robot really doesn't work. The units I have used (REMOTEC, Wheelbarrows) emit too much spurious RF from the control box and motors to allow the receiver to catch anything. If you have that kind of money to invest, I suggest something like the EGIS, or the ICAM. However, apparently they are making leaps and bounds with zero field nuclear magnetic resonance imaging, as a hand held unit is scheduled to arrive in four years. If you need more info, I can sanitize some stuff I have and send it to you. Good luck! Meanwhile, it's still pretty much a flashlight and screwdriver world........... Shawn Hughes 2399 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Fri Jan 26, 2001 5:40pm Subject: Re: EOD uses for NLJD At 1:36 PM -0800 1/26/01, Shawn Hughes wrote: >I've been reading the posts on this subject with great interest. As a >practicing bomb technician here in the US, I try to keep abreast of >anything that might be of use to us. I recall some testing done by Sandia >and NAVSCHOLEOD at Indian Head on the NLJD, but I believe that the >consensus was that the price per unit versus actual applicability made them >a poor choice. I know some Fed PSBT units that have them, but what they do >with their end-of-FY money's their business! > [snip] >Mr. Atkinson is dead on about RF and blasting caps. However, caps are >usually more sensitive to RF than matches, making them that much more >susceptible. ( A good try - it - yourself test is to substitute a grain of >wheat lamp for the cap. Even a child's walkie talkie can illuminate the >lamp with correctly tuned leg wires!) However, using TSCM on a robot really [snip] Cut the match leads to be resonant to the NLJD illumination signal and most of the time you will hear a loud noise when you pass the NLJD over the leads. Since caps normally tend to be jacketed the effect isn't as easy to demonstrate (with caps), but then again it is most unwise to touch off a blasting cap at a close distance (personally I don't like using tweezers to pick little bits of cap shrapnel out of my skin). If I remember the tech manual correctly the minimum safe distance between an electric blasting cap (or wiring involving a blasting cap) for a 1 - 5 watt ERP RF device below 1 GHz is 10 feet. There is also the "155 foot away from power lines" rule from twenty years back. -jma -- ======================================================================= Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - George Orwell ======================================================================= James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... ======================================================================= The First, The Largest, The Most Popular, and The Most Complete TSCM, Technical Security, and Counterintelligence Site on the Internet. ======================================================================= 2400 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Sat Jan 27, 2001 0:20pm Subject: Doctor Hid Camera in Nurses Bathroom SATURDAY JANUARY 27 2001 Doctor Hid Camera in Nurses Bathroom http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,2-74728,00.html BY DAVID CHARTER, HEALTH CORRESPONDENT A HOSPITAL doctor was under suspension last night after nurses found a camera hidden in a shampoo bottle overlooking their bath. Michael Shiew, a senior house officer, is now the subject of a hospital and police inquiry into the incident in the nurses’ shared bathroom at Brighton General Hospital. Dr Shiew, 27, was arrested after a nurse found a miniature recording device concealed in a large bottle of Head & Shoulders overlooking a bath tub. The container was left in the bathroom used by a dozen mostly female nurses who live on the same corridor of an accommodation block at the hospital. One of the nurses picked it up before stepping into the bath and found that it contained a camera and transmitter. Police later removed a bag of videotapes and technical equipment from a room in the block. One of the female nurses living there said: "When I saw this device in the bottle, my first reaction was that this was a joke. Then we figured out it was a camera with an antenna which sends out a signal and I realized this was much more serious. Dr Shiew, who was attending a three-day course at the Brighton hospital, was suspended from his job as a senior house officer in the anaesthetics department of St George's Hospital in Tooting, southwest London, pending an investigation. Police said that a car and a house had been searched and that they had removed a number of videotapes and computer disks for analysis. They were called to the first floor of the nurses' quarters late last Thursday after alarmed residents summoned hospital security guards. The device was found by Joe Cidoni, a male nurse at Brighton's accident and emergency department, after his Norwegian wife had run him a bath. The couple live in a room a short walk down the corridor from the shared bathroom. Mr Cidoni, 40, said: "It was a really big bottle and when I first saw it, I admit I thought Great, free shampoo so I picked it up. But it just didn't feel right and then it clicked. "Shampoo doesn't normally click, so I gave the top a pull to see if it would come off. To my disbelief, I found it was full of wiring. In the side of the top of the bottle was a pinhole. I thought someone was playing a trick or that I had stumbled into a police investigation. A female nurse who did not want to be named said: "There is a lock on the bathroom door and a lock on the outer door of the corridor. You think you are secure here. I could not believe this would happen to me in a place like this. Mr Cidoni, an American who joined Brighton General Hospital this month, added: "My wife is extremely upset about what happened. I came here to learn things I could not learn in my previous post but I never expected to be embroiled in something like this. Brighton police confirmed that a 27-year-old man had been arrested at the hospital last Thursday night. A spokeswoman said: "He was arrested on suspicion of taking indecent photos and the equipment recovered was a covert video camera concealed in a shampoo bottle and other digital equipment and videos. Apparently unsure of the grounds on which to make an arrest they fear that the recording device may have captured images of the children of nurses’ guests who also use the communal bathroom. The police spokeswoman added: "We searched the man's car and his house. Videotape and computer disks were removed from the address and the car. A spokesman for Brighton General Hospital said: "An arrest was made of a doctor who was accused of spying on staff in the nurses’ accommodation. He was not an employee of this trust. He was here because our postgraduate medical centre runs courses for medical staff throughout the country and he was here for three days. "This has obviously been upsetting for the staff who live there and we have given them assurances that we have checked for any untoward devices. He added: "There are single males, single females and couples who live there. We have a very limited amount of accommodation which we offer not just to nurses but to doctors and there is no policy to segregate between the sexes. St George's Healthcare NHS Trust has promised a full inquiry. A spokesman said: "The trust is continuing with its investigation into allegations that recording equipment had been discovered there (Brighton General Hospital). Dr Shiew, who has not been charged with any offence but remains on police bail, refused to comment last night on the allegations. -- ======================================================================= Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - George Orwell ======================================================================= James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... ======================================================================= The First, The Largest, The Most Popular, and The Most Complete TSCM, Technical Security, and Counterintelligence Site on the Internet. ======================================================================= 2401 From: Chris Childs Date: Sat Jan 27, 2001 0:25pm Subject: Re: Fire authorities in California.... This sounds like an urban legend to me. First off, I couldn't find a paper called the "California Examiner". Second I found this web site: http://www.urbanlegends.com/death/scuba_forest_fire.html James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng" wrote, > > >Fire authorities in California found a corpse in a burned out section of >forest while assessing the damage done by a forest fire..The deceased male >was dressed in a full wet suit, complete with SCUBA tanks on his back, >flippers, and face mask. A post-mortem revealed that the person died not >from burns, but from massive internal injuries. Dental records provided a >positive identification. Investigators then set about to determine how a >fully clad diver ended up in the middle of a forest fire.. >It was revealed that, on the day of the fire, the person went for a diving >trip off the coast some 20 miles away from the forest. The firefighters, >seeking to control the fire as quickly as possible, called in a fleet of >helicopters with very large dip buckets. >Water was dipped from the ocean then flown to the forest fire and >emptied..You guessed it. One minute our diver was making like Flipper in >the Pacific, the next he was doing the breast stroke in a fire dip bucket >300 feet in the air. Apparently he extinguished exactly 5'-10" of the >fire. >Some days it just doesn't pay to get out of bed! > >This article was taken from the California Examiner, March 20, 1998 >-- > > ======================================================================= > Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? > "In a time of universal deceit, telling the > truth is a revolutionary act" - George Orwell > ======================================================================= > James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 > Granite Island Group Fax: (978) 546-9467 > 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ > Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... > ======================================================================= > The First, The Largest, The Most Popular, and The Most Complete TSCM, > Technical Security, and Counterintelligence Site on the Internet. > ======================================================================= > _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.