From: Paul Curtis Date: Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:38pm Subject: RE: Fire closes New York subway line Just remember, There is no possibility on the face of the earth that all of the robbers, murderers, rapists, muggers and burglars could ever hope to do as much damage as the incompetent people we encounter every day! Paul Curtis _____ From: L. F. Elia [mailto:lfelia@y...] Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 11:26 To: TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] Fire closes New York subway line Kinda sad if you ask me. Just like in information assurance, where most of the threat comes from ineptitude rather than malice. --- "James M. Atkinson" wrote: > > Does anybody else on the list find it ironic that a > homeless guy with a > shopping cart was able to accidently take out a > chunk of the infrastructure > of New York? ===== Solaris/LINUX/Windows administration Internet consulting & Web site design ------------------------------------- lfelia@y..., Virginia Beach VA, 23462 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS _____ Yahoo! Groups Links *To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TSCM-L/ *To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com *Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10829 From: Paul Curtis Date: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:18pm Subject: RE: Star Sweeping One more thing to consider. When you make your assertion that the place is bug free it is only bug free at the exact point in time when you made the sweep. Further, if there are quiet devices or there is no active system in operation at the time you make the sweep, you can hardly be expected to have discovered such, particularly if it was off premises. I second the comments regarding laser beams as listening devices - 80 percent fantasy - 20 percent reality (if that much). Paul Curtis _____ From: J.A. Terranson [mailto:measl@m...] Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 14:36 To: TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] Star Sweeping On Thu, 27 Jan 2005, Thomas Kellar wrote: > What if you sweep a client and declare them to be free of > bugs or other similar covert surveillance devices but > it turns out your client's enemies (paparzzzi?) are > bouncing laser beams off your clients windows and are > listening in that way. Consequently the enemy gains > some knowledge that they use. Can your client come > back and sue you for malfeasence? Two points: (1) Bouncing laser beams off windows is a LOT harder than you might think, and works a lot worse than you've heard. Been there, tried that (in a lab environment no less), fed up with it :-) (2) I think you are confusing the term "malfeasence" with "error". They are not the same, nor even related. > I.e., what if > > 1. There is a bug you did not find > 2. The bad guys are using means you do not check for > > I suppose that the client would have to prove that the > knowledge was gained due to your alleged negligence and > that probably would be difficult. You are describing an "Errors and Omissions" issue. If you are doing work which may result in E&O liability (TSCM certainly falls into this classification), you better be carrying E&O insurance. Everyone I know carries at least a million in E&O, many carry a lot more (ten is not uncommon, but *wow* is it expensive!). > I frequently am asked to check friends and relative's > computers for spyware and viruses and when I am done, I > always declare that to the best of my knowledge they > are free of such but I never claim absolutely that they > are. Is there a similarity there? I would make this assertion in writing, and have them sign a copy for *your* records, just to be safe. Still, this antivirus thing is a *long* way from a TSCM sweep: discussing them in the same context makes the discussion a non-seqitor. > Thanks for your time, > > Thomas All the best, -- Yours, J.A. Terranson sysadmin@m... 0xBD4A95BF Civilization is in a tailspin - everything is backwards, everything is upside down- doctors destroy health, psychiatrists destroy minds, lawyers destroy justice, the major media destroy information, governments destroy freedom and religions destroy spirituality - yet it is claimed to be healthy, just, informed, free and spiritual. We live in a social system whose community, wealth, love and life is derived from alienation, poverty, self-hate and medical murder - yet we tell ourselves that it is biologically and ecologically sustainable. The Bush plan to screen whole US population for mental illness clearly indicates that mental illness starts at the top. Rev Dr Michael Ellner ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS _____ Yahoo! Groups Links *To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TSCM-L/ *To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com *Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10830 From: Charles Patterson Date: Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:40pm Subject: Re: Star Sweeping > > What if you sweep a client and declare them to be free of > bugs or other similar covert surveillance devices but Declaring someone to be completely free of surveillance devices seems to be a pretty big assumption. I will state that we did not find any working devices in the areas specified... and some things like Tim says. And we will tell them many of the other ways that surveillance could be taking place- employees, documents, trash, air ducts, poor physical security, etc. Also we state that our results are for the time period of the sweep. If there was a device removed before we got there, or placed after we left (such as if they don't follow security recommendations) we have no control over that. You do need to word your contracts and reports carefully. Charles > it turns out your client's enemies (paparzzzi?) are > bouncing laser beams off your clients windows and are > listening in that way. Consequently the enemy gains > some knowledge that they use. Can your client come > back and sue you for malfeasence? > > I.e., what if > > 1. There is a bug you did not find > 2. The bad guys are using means you do not check for > > I suppose that the client would have to prove that the > knowledge was gained due to your alleged negligence and > that probably would be difficult. > > I frequently am asked to check friends and relative's > computers for spyware and viruses and when I am done, I > always declare that to the best of my knowledge they > are free of such but I never claim absolutely that they > are. Is there a similarity there? > > Thanks for your time, > > Thomas > > > On Thu, 27 Jan 2005, Hawkspirit wrote: >> Hey don’t laugh too hard at this, I have made serious money over the >> years >> sweeping homes of movie and rock stars that have paparazzi fears. >> Excellent >> clients. >> Roger Tolces >> >> HYPERLINK "http://www.bugsweeps.com/"www.bugsweeps.com >> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 00:45:03 -0000 >> >> From: "satcommunitfive" >> >> Subject: Re: Police probe Nicole Kidman 'bug' >> great a FM bug listening to worms in the grass -and probably wind >> >> real useful ! >> and they said hi tech on the telly ! > > > -- > w8twk Freelance Systems Programming http://www.fsp.com > > > > > > > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > =================================================== TSKS > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > 10831 From: A Grudko Date: Fri Jan 28, 2005 3:05am Subject: RE: Kidman/Star Sweeping >Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 00:45:03 -0000 >From: "satcommunitfive" >Subject: Re: Police probe Nicole Kidman 'bug' >great a FM bug listening to worms in the grass -and probably wind >real useful ! An old PI trick is to place a cheap FM bug next to an observant subject's gate or garage door, then sit out of sight with the car radio tuned into the worms and wind. When the PI hears the gate/door opening he slowly cruises into the road so that as the subject emerges the PI vehicle looks mike just another motorist. > and they said hi tech on the telly ! We can to some degree excuse the journos for getting technical details wrong (also they may have been given disinformation), but Noel McMaster (director of Kidman's personal security agency) really told the newspaper. "There is no doubt that any information that we were transmitting would have been heard,", then it might not have been a simple FM bug. One has to wonder what kind of "information" Ms Kidman might have been "transmitting" and how? Perhaps what they mean is that there was a low power room/phone bug in her apartment and the device found outside was either a receiver/recorder or a repeater. Andy Grudko (British), DPM, Grad IS (South Africa) MIS/Grudko Associates, Est. 1981. PSIRA reg. No. 8642 www.grudko.com , agrudko@i... Pretoria HO (+27 12) 244 0255 - 244 0256 (Fax) Branches: Sandton (+27 11) 465 9673 - 465 1487 (Fax) Johannesburg (+27 11) 781 7206 - 781 7207(Fax) Mid Rand (+27 11) 318 1451 - 318 6846(Fax) Cellular (+27) 82 778 6355 - ICQ 146498943 SACI(Pres) SASA, IPA, WAD, CALI, UKPIN, IWWA. "When you need it done right - first time" -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.1 - Release Date: 1/27/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.4 - Release Date: 2005/01/25 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.4 - Release Date: 2005/01/25 10832 From: A Grudko Date: Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:41am Subject: RE: 6 GHz -----Original Message----- From: G P [mailto:telos888@y...] > Anyone ever run across a 6 Ghz signal in TSCM sweeps, specifically 6.11 Ghz? On a sweep within a few Km of Johannesburg's main airport I once detected a continuous carrier over a 2 hour period on about 6.13 GHz. The signal strength was almost constant throughout the building, indicating it was not coming from that location and it DF'd towards the airport. There was no modulation on it that I could detect. I suspected it was some kind of RF link and probably not any threat to the client. Andy Grudko (British), DPM, Grad IS (South Africa) MIS/Grudko Associates, Est. 1981. PSIRA reg. No. 8642 www.grudko.com , agrudko@i... Pretoria HO (+27 12) 244 0255 - 244 0256 (Fax) Branches: Sandton (+27 11) 465 9673 - 465 1487 (Fax) Johannesburg (+27 11) 781 7206 - 781 7207(Fax) Mid Rand (+27 11) 318 1451 - 318 6846(Fax) Cellular (+27) 82 778 6355 - ICQ 146498943 SACI(Pres) SASA, IPA, WAD, CALI, UKPIN, IWWA. "When you need it done right - first time" ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.4 - Release Date: 2005/01/25 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10833 From: J. Coote Date: Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:24pm Subject: RE: Star Sweeping Thomas, This is not legal advice, but a good report is a part of the service provided by a professional sweeper. The report may describe the site while protecting client information and will include what was done, what it was done with, how it was done, when the sweep began, when the sweep ended.... And if nothing was found, a report might say that during the date and time of the sweep, XX:xx to XX:xx hours, using the equipment and practices outlined in the report, no nasties were found. Some uninformed clients may get nudgy and try and pin you down; using jargon learned from TV such as "Is it CLEAN or not?" The sweeper has to be clear and concise in their client education before the sweep, and afterward in their report writing. Jay Los Angeles -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Kellar [mailto:tkellar@f...] Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 12:09 PM To: TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] Star Sweeping This is probably priledged knowledge but I will ask anyway: What if you sweep a client and declare them to be free of bugs or other similar covert surveillance devices but it turns out your client's enemies (paparzzzi?) are bouncing laser beams off your clients windows and are listening in that way. Consequently the enemy gains some knowledge that they use. Can your client come back and sue you for malfeasence? I.e., what if 1. There is a bug you did not find 2. The bad guys are using means you do not check for I suppose that the client would have to prove that the knowledge was gained due to your alleged negligence and that probably would be difficult. I frequently am asked to check friends and relative's computers for spyware and viruses and when I am done, I always declare that to the best of my knowledge they are free of such but I never claim absolutely that they are. Is there a similarity there? Thanks for your time, Thomas 10834 From: Riskbiz Date: Fri Jan 28, 2005 3:23am Subject: RE: "Sound of Voices" ?????? Tim, Get used to it. The list is apparently populated to a large degree by people who wear cranial tin foil most of the time. You'll see a real TSCM related piece on about a 1:20 ratio (that's what it has been in my short time on the list). But it's still a great place to hear extreme views on everything from smoking to big brother to politics...and get a laugh a couple of times a day. DK -----Original Message----- From: Tim Johnson [mailto:dbugman@d...] Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 7:14 PM To: TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] "Sound of Voices" ?????? I've only been on the list a day or so, but so far nothing has been posted relating to TSCM. I have a problem relating smoking bans to TSCM. Then again, I'm a former smoker and don't miss the smell when I'm eating, walking up to a building or actually in an office. tim -- Tim Johnson Technical Security Consultants Inc. PO Box 1295 Carrollton, GA 30112 770-836-4898 770-712-2164 Cell What you say in private is your business. Keeping it private is ours. Georgia License # PDC 002074 Technical Security Consultants Inc. MemberINTELNET Espionage Research Institute Association of Former Office of Special Investigations Special Agents-Technical Agent http://www.dbugman.com This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Neither this information block, the typed name of the sender, or anything else in this message is intended to constitute an electronic signature for purposes of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act (E-Sign) unless a specific statement to the contrary is included in this message. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! http://us.click.yahoo.com/EpW3eD/3MnJAA/cosFAA/UBhwlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS Yahoo! Groups Links 10835 From: Tim Johnson Date: Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:58pm Subject: Re: Star Sweeping Michael wrote: Whose standards? We always include a copy of our 'standards' with our proposals so that the client knows exactly what service we are performing. To get the rest of what is contained in my report, you're going to have to hire me. But the report also includes a description of the area(s) examined, RF analysis, Telephone analysis and Physical Examination, as well as a findings and recommendations page(s). Tim (Personal to Michael......Scott and Julian, down in your part of the world, know me if you want to check with them. You'll have to wait for Julian: he and Shirley are vacationing in HK, England and France at the moment (He is supposed to hook up with Alain-Pierre once AP gets back from the States on Sunday). And Scott is probably busy with his boats. ) -- Tim Johnson Technical Security Consultants Inc. PO Box 1295 Carrollton, GA 30112 770-836-4898 770-712-2164 Cell What you say in private is your business. Keeping it private is ours. Georgia License # PDC 002074 Technical Security Consultants Inc. MemberINTELNET Espionage Research Institute Association of Former Office of Special Investigations Special Agents-Technical Agent http://www.dbugman.com This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Neither this information block, the typed name of the sender, or anything else in this message is intended to constitute an electronic signature for purposes of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act (E-Sign) unless a specific statement to the contrary is included in this message. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10836 From: contranl Date: Fri Jan 28, 2005 6:57am Subject: Re: 6 GHz . It would help if you describe the signal a little more then just it's frequency. How wide was it ? Was it analog or digital ? Any typical type of modulation ? (AM/FM/PULSE) What did it sound or look like ? What was it's power ? (range/receivable distance) Duration or period of the signal ? Did you receive it on just one piece of equipment and what equipment was that ? If you include those things you might get a better answer instead of many guesses. It could have been: A wireless phone. A video camera. A datalink. Some piece of malfunctioning equipment. Or even something that is not on that frequency at all but an harmonic or mix from another frequency. In the worse case it could have been from a source inside your used equipment itself. When you ask for help in identifying signals you should include as much information as possible Mentioning all these details is a good exercise and it forces you to analyse and eliminate ...wich might eventually give you the wanted answers...like this i have many times found some answers myself even while i was writing down the question. Tetrascanner 10837 From: kondrak Date: Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:33am Subject: RE: 6 GHz That of course, could also indicate it wasn't sending anything as well, like the audio was off, no activity in the area, etc. IE: the motion detector shut the audio stages down, either to conserve battery, or to thwart it's purpose if somone listened to it. I always try to hunt the emitter down as precise if possible. At 05:41 1/28/2005, you wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: G P [mailto:telos888@y...] > > > Anyone ever run across a 6 Ghz signal in TSCM sweeps, > specifically 6.11 Ghz? > > On a sweep within a few Km of Johannesburg's main airport I once detected >a continuous carrier over a 2 hour period on about 6.13 GHz. The signal >strength was almost constant throughout the building, indicating it was not >coming from that location and it DF'd towards the airport. There was no >modulation on it that I could detect. > > I suspected it was some kind of RF link and probably not any threat to the >client. > > Andy Grudko (British), DPM, Grad IS (South Africa) > MIS/Grudko Associates, Est. 1981. PSIRA reg. No. 8642 > www.grudko.com , agrudko@i... > Pretoria HO (+27 12) 244 0255 - 244 0256 (Fax) Branches: > Sandton (+27 11) 465 9673 - 465 1487 (Fax) > Johannesburg (+27 11) 781 7206 - 781 7207(Fax) > Mid Rand (+27 11) 318 1451 - 318 6846(Fax) > Cellular (+27) 82 778 6355 - ICQ 146498943 > SACI(Pres) SASA, IPA, WAD, CALI, UKPIN, IWWA. > "When you need it done right - first time" > > > > > > ---------- > >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.4 - Release Date: 2005/01/25 > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >=================================================== TSKS >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > 10838 From: kondrak Date: Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:38am Subject: Re: Cryptome Just worked for me too....I would say if and when it goes down, expect the worst. At 15:47 1/27/2005, you wrote: >Um no >not as far as I can tell and I was just on it. > > >--- Tech Sec Lab wrote: > > > Well, it seems the DHS got their way in the end. > > > > Cryptome has been closed down. For the moment > > anyway. > > > > http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/jan05.asp > > > > Shame. > > > > > > >===== >Solaris/LINUX/Windows administration >Internet consulting & Web site design >------------------------------------- >lfelia@y..., Virginia Beach VA, 23462 > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > > > > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >=================================================== TSKS >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > 10839 From: kondrak Date: Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:52am Subject: Re: "Sound of Voices" ?????? Yup! Seig Heil big brother... >We cannot smoke in the USA and now one cannot smoke in >in the pubs in Ireland. As personal freedoms slowly >go away it is only a matter of time before we have no >rights to privacy. The manufacturer is getting >prepared for that day when the government can and will >follow a citizen's every move. Orwell's "1984" just >took a little longer. 10840 From: kondrak Date: Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:00am Subject: Re: "Sound of Voices" ?????? it varies from day to day, we post about a lot of things, both from a technical and a political view. The topics grow broader, but there will be plenty techie stuff as well. Some people just aren't concerned 24/7 with the noise floor of their super-whiz-band-do preamp signal sniffer. We get into computer security, wireless, RFID, gooberment intrusions, and all sorts of stuff. Its worth the ride... At 12:13 1/27/2005, you wrote: >I've only been on the list a day or so, but so far nothing has been >posted relating to TSCM. I have a problem relating smoking bans to >TSCM. Then again, I'm a former smoker and don't miss the smell when >I'm eating, walking up to a building or actually in an office. > >tim >-- > >Tim Johnson > >Technical Security Consultants Inc. >PO Box 1295 >Carrollton, GA 30112 >770-836-4898 >770-712-2164 Cell > >What you say in private is your business. Keeping it private is ours. > >Georgia License # PDC 002074 Technical Security Consultants Inc. >Member INTELNET > Espionage Research Institute > Association of Former Office of Special Investigations >Special Agents-Technical Agent >http://www.dbugman.com > >This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may >contain privileged confidential, or proprietary information that is >exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message >in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the >e-mail and destroy any printed copy. > >Neither this information block, the typed name of the sender, or >anything else in this message is intended to constitute an electronic >signature for purposes of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or >the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act >(E-Sign) unless a specific statement to the contrary is included in >this message. > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >=================================================== TSKS >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > 10841 From: kondrak Date: Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:06am Subject: RE: Humour Re: Fire closes New York subway line True, The founders gave us two main tools to effect change in government. We have elections, and we have the second amendment. The election thing is almost worthless to pursue any more, for the process is corrupted and whored. Elections are stolen, the vote is corrupted, and soon, when unverified electronic voting becomes the norm, the outcomes will be known by the corruptors weeks before any election. It will put the criminality of previous notable gangs like "Tammany hall" to shame. At that point, the only remaining choice will be to fight, or sink into the serfdom of a socialist police-state. > >No, we're not technically a "Democracy", we're a Constitutional Republic, >but the preceding text still holds true. And it will see itself >self-evident as long as we have more whiners than doers. If it's broke, >then fix it - you as an American citizen actually do have that power. And >fortunately for most, you also have the power to whine just enough to not >really be heard, but at least you can piss off the people who don't agree >with you. 10842 From: Hawkspirit Date: Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:50am Subject: Sweep Contract What are the terms of agreement in your contract with your client? Roger Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 15:09:02 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas Kellar Subject: Re: Star Sweeping This is probably priledged knowledge but I will ask anyway: What if you sweep a client and declare them to be free of bugs or other similar covert surveillance devices but it turns out your client's enemies (paparzzzi?) are bouncing laser beams off your clients windows and are listening in that way. Consequently the enemy gains some knowledge that they use. Can your client come back and sue you for malfeasence? I.e., what if 1. There is a bug you did not find 2. The bad guys are using means you do not check for I suppose that the client would have to prove that the knowledge was gained due to your alleged negligence and that probably would be difficult. I frequently am asked to check friends and relative's computers for spyware and viruses and when I am done, I always declare that to the best of my knowledge they are free of such but I never claim absolutely that they are. Is there a similarity there? Thanks for your time, Thomas -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.1 - Release Date: 1/27/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10843 From: Hawkspirit Date: Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:52am Subject: 6 GHZ On what piece of gear did you make the measurement and when was it last calibrated? Roger From: "wiggyyy2000" Subject: Re: 6 GHz yes but the one i saw was at about 6.02Ghz approx.... --- In TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com, G P wrote: > Anyone ever run across a 6 Ghz signal in TSCM sweeps, > specifically 6.11 Ghz? -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.1 - Release Date: 1/27/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10844 From: Hawkspirit Date: Fri Jan 28, 2005 0:04pm Subject: "Sound of Voices" ?????? It is interesting to note that if you wrap a standard cell phone in good quality aluminum foil and call it will not operate/ring. Roger Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2005 11:23:06 +0200 From: "Riskbiz" Subject: RE: "Sound of Voices" ?????? Tim, Get used to it. The list is apparently populated to a large degree by people who wear cranial tin foil most of the time. You'll see a real TSCM related piece on about a 1:20 ratio (that's what it has been in my short time on the list). But it's still a great place to hear extreme views on everything from smoking to big brother to politics...and get a laugh a couple of times a day. DK -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.1 - Release Date: 1/27/2005 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10845 From: contranl Date: Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:01pm Subject: Re: "Sound of Voices" ?????? . Hey....stop spoiling "my" thread :) or i will have to activate the traffic-light in front of your house. I was deadly serious ! Tetrascanner http://www.tetrascanner.com When bored ...check out my groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gsm-scanner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/traffic-cams 10846 From: A Grudko Date: Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:16pm Subject: RE: 6 GHz -----Original Message----- From: kondrak [mailto:kondrak@s...] > That of course, could also indicate it wasn't sending anything as well, like the audio was off, no activity in the area, etc. IE: the motion detector shut the audio stages down, either to conserve battery, or to thwart it's purpose if somone listened to it. I always try to hunt the emitter down as precise if possible. If you suspect the emission comes from the area under examination, sure, but not if it is obviously from a distant external source. I had one like this Thursday. Not on 6 GHz but 6.095 MEGS!!!, at a house I had swept at least 5 times before. The BBC were blasting in on 6.190 Megs, S9 plus all round the suburb, but just around the house was a blank carrier on house 6.095 Megs. No modulation until I put on the Scanlock audio search signal, on that specific RF freq, and turned the volume up high. In 4 rooms it became intermittent, a sign that there was a 'mike' transmitting in the room. The client had recently supplemented the existing (10 year old?) 5 point intercom with a flat screen CCTV system and linked to a Philips iPronto wireless/IR remote control/internet access system. The 6.095 Megs was RF strongest and required the least audio output to become 'microphonic' in the master bedroom. Turned off the iPronto CPU and the 6.095 Megs signal disappeared. Andy Grudko (British), DPM, Grad IS (South Africa) MIS/Grudko Associates, Est. 1981. PSIRA reg. No. 8642 www.grudko.com , agrudko@i... Pretoria HO (+27 12) 244 0255 - 244 0256 (Fax) Branches: Sandton (+27 11) 465 9673 - 465 1487 (Fax) Johannesburg (+27 11) 781 7206 - 781 7207(Fax) Mid Rand (+27 11) 318 1451 - 318 6846(Fax) Cellular (+27) 82 778 6355 - ICQ 146498943 SACI(Pres) SASA, IPA, WAD, CALI, UKPIN, IWWA. "When you need it done right - first time" ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.4 - Release Date: 2005/01/25 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10847 From: Michael Puchol Date: Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:06am Subject: Re: Counter-Surveillance? Maybe point the cameras at the places where damage is actually being done. Make sure the lens cap is off. Make sure the recording device has capacity to capture enough video to cover the period when the damage occurs. Other than that, I cannot think of any particular reason (other than ghosts or vampires, which don't show up on film, maybe). Mildred Young wrote: > > I have video surveillance cameras installed, however it seems that I am still being vandalized without capturing it on my Lorex system....any suggestions? The police think I am nuts, I need help! > I don't want to continue to be a victim in Phoenix, AZ > Thanks > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > =================================================== TSKS > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > 10848 From: contranl Date: Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:50am Subject: Re: Counter-Surveillance? . Mount the cameras on a house on the OTHER SIDE of the street ! on or inside a house of the neighbours that live in front or near you. Your attackers have probably figured out that you are watching them you could use wireless cams to get the signals back to you. Think about if you leave or remove the cams on your own house depending on the situation you could leave them where they are to not alert them ...or to scare-off possible other burglars. If you don't want to trouble the neighbours or if they don't cooperate...put them in a car or van...parked across the street...not exactly in front of your house. Instead of wireless you could also use a videorecorder inside the car To solve "run out of tape problems" you could use a: Time lapse recorder Timer switch Motion-detector Digital recorder (now availbale for less then 800 $ at 40 hours) Another solution could be to use a "infrared fence" 4 posts on every corner around the house. Each of them containing infrared light beams,similar to those used in standard alarm systems...mounted at 60 cm's height to avoid triggering by animals...you would have to hide them inside existing or natural looking objects...such a system you could make with less then 700 $ worth of components. 200 other solutions are available. Tetrascanner http://www.tetrascanner.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/traffic-cams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gsm-scanner 10849 From: contranl Date: Sat Jan 29, 2005 8:19am Subject: Police sharing wiretapping files at Kazaa !! . It doesn't get any better then this: A Dutch military police officer has been sharing his files of an important international "humans-smuggling" case with millions of Kazaa users ! Among the files were 1000's of: Phonetap-records, Covert-operations details Cellular short message intercepts Gps tracking operations Adresses,and phonenumbers of suspects All of this during a period of at least 3 months from november till januari...even after the justice-department was alarmed the files where still available for some more time. The Justice-department calls the man a stupid. Just 2 months ago there was another case of ignorance when a Justice department attorny had put his complete PC on the sidewalk to go with garbage...it contained full hardisks with similair (non-erased) information. The department says it's not allowed to take files home. source: most todays Dutch newspapers I have no other words for this...what stupid ignorants :) :) :) Kazaa is a very popular filesharing-program used by at least 30 million,mainly for exchanging music(mp3)files,free of charge. In this fairly simple piece of software (Kazaa-client)you have to mark the files that you want to share. what you share is always visible in a so called "shared-folder-tree" some idiots never look at this and share their complete C,D,E...whole alfabet drives. I have played a lot with Kazaa sometime ago...in a curious mood i told it to look for textfiles containing the word "police" ...if you believe it or not it did return some results coming from computers owned by real police officers. Tetrascanner 10850 From: A Grudko Date: Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:56pm Subject: Graduate Cryptographers Unlock Code of 'Thiefproof' Car Key Graduate Cryptographers Unlock Code of 'Thiefproof' Car Key By JOHN SCHWARTZ January 29, 2005 BALTIMORE - Matthew Green starts his 2005 Ford Escape with a duplicate key he had made at Lowe's. Nothing unusual about that, except that the automobile industry has spent millions of dollars to keep him from being able to do it. Mr. Green, a graduate student at Johns Hopkins University, is part of a team that plans to announce on Jan. 29 that it has cracked the security behind "immobilizer" systems from Texas Instruments Inc. The systems reduce car theft, because vehicles will not start unless the system recognizes a tiny chip in the authorized key. They are used in millions of Fords, Toyotas and Nissans. All that would be required to steal a car, the researchers said, is a moment next to the car owner to extract data from the key, less than an hour of computing, and a few minutes to break in, feed the key code to the car and hot-wire it. An executive with the Texas Instruments division that makes the systems did not dispute that the Hopkins team had cracked its code, but said there was much more to stealing a car than that. The devices, said the executive, Tony Sabetti, "have been fraud-free and are likely to remain fraud-free." The implications of the Hopkins finding go beyond stealing cars. ... http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/29/national/29key.html?ex=1264741200&en=cc110 4501a87d6d1&ei=5090 ---------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.4 - Release Date: 2005/01/25 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.4 - Release Date: 2005/01/25 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10851 From: contranl Date: Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:53am Subject: Declassified document ( FBI on foreign intelligence act ) . For those interested: http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/fisa/fisa-recipe.pdf Tetrascanner 10852 From: G P Date: Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:23pm Subject: Re: Declassified document ( FBI on foreign intelligence act ) That's a great find Tetra, lots of very relevant legal cites and authorities. Thanks. --- contranl wrote: > For those interested: > > http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/fisa/fisa-recipe.pdf > > > Tetrascanner 10853 From: moellerthy <1ach@g...> Date: Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:14pm Subject: Re: Counter-Surveillance? --- In TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com, "Mildred Young" wrote: > Hello Mildred Young I had the same problem with ADT camera's fed into a switcher. I know someone was getting in but the intruder was not on the tape, so I purchased Pelco camer's and 21 inch monitors and 16 channel Multiplexers IR auto iris lens near and far field color and B/W camera's ups systems then I caught the intruder the police have the tapes as I write this turned out to be a neighbor how she got by the security alarm and 4 camera's well a ADT rouge employee had rewired the panel to cancel out two seperate codes so that one code would shut down the whole alarm system still have not figured out how the 4 camera switcher would not record the intruder but in captured me . You can buy some equipment on ebay other wise it will be very costly just to get a Multiplexer. I have back up systems in place just in case one system gets compromised. Buy a pelco Multiplexer should solve the problem. Andre Holmes Neptune Enterprise Security http://www.nes-ets-usa.com 1ach@G... > I have video surveillance cameras installed, however it seems that I am still being vandalized without capturing it on my Lorex system....any suggestions? The police think I am nuts, I need help! > I don't want to continue to be a victim in Phoenix, AZ > Thanks > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10854 From: Tim Johnson Date: Fri Jan 28, 2005 1:40pm Subject: Re: "Sound of Voices" ?????? No problem. I was just afraid I had signed up for another one of the groups that discusses things totally unrelated to their "charter". I've whittled myself down to about 4 of them now, as the unrelated topics took over the original intent. As for the things you listed. I'm most certainly interested in all of those.....they relate to the work TSCM tech wieners do or are concerned about. tj -- Tim Johnson Technical Security Consultants Inc. PO Box 1295 Carrollton, GA 30112 770-836-4898 770-712-2164 Cell What you say in private is your business. Keeping it private is ours. Georgia License # PDC 002074 Technical Security Consultants Inc. MemberINTELNET Espionage Research Institute Association of Former Office of Special Investigations Special Agents-Technical Agent http://www.dbugman.com This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Neither this information block, the typed name of the sender, or anything else in this message is intended to constitute an electronic signature for purposes of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act (E-Sign) unless a specific statement to the contrary is included in this message. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10855 From: Mildred Young Date: Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:28am Subject: Re: "Sound of Voices" ?????? Hey, in my defense of one of those who think they may need "cranial tin foil"....this list has enlighten me of the seriousness of a sick percentage of people who actual create a need for TSCM experts. I am just learning information about an area, that I never thought would be remotely applying to me. I am just an average type who goes about their day in la-la land. I am experiencing something that I shouldn't, so keep educating the innocent and let it be part of your contribution to life. When you do find out you are being bugged, what are the legal rights I would have? Or what do I do next? Thank you for your patience. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Riskbiz" To: Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 2:23 AM Subject: RE: [TSCM-L] "Sound of Voices" ?????? > > > Tim, > > Get used to it. The list is apparently populated to a large degree by > people who wear cranial tin foil most of the time. > > You'll see a real TSCM related piece on about a 1:20 ratio (that's what it > has been in my short time on the list). > > But it's still a great place to hear extreme views on everything from > smoking to big brother to politics...and get a laugh a couple of times a > day. > > DK > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Johnson [mailto:dbugman@d...] > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 7:14 PM > To: TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] "Sound of Voices" ?????? > > > > I've only been on the list a day or so, but so far nothing has been posted > relating to TSCM. I have a problem relating smoking bans to TSCM. Then > again, I'm a former smoker and don't miss the smell when I'm eating, > walking > up to a building or actually in an office. > > tim > -- > > Tim Johnson > > Technical Security Consultants Inc. > PO Box 1295 > Carrollton, GA 30112 > 770-836-4898 > 770-712-2164 Cell > > What you say in private is your business. Keeping it private is ours. > > Georgia License # PDC 002074 Technical Security Consultants Inc. > Member INTELNET > Espionage Research Institute > Association of Former Office of Special Investigations Special > Agents-Technical Agent http://www.dbugman.com > > This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may > contain > privileged confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from > disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please > inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any > printed copy. > > Neither this information block, the typed name of the sender, or anything > else in this message is intended to constitute an electronic signature for > purposes of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the Electronic > Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act > (E-Sign) unless a specific statement to the contrary is included in this > message. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In > low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. > At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/EpW3eD/3MnJAA/cosFAA/UBhwlB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands > acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > =================================================== TSKS Yahoo! Groups > Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > =================================================== TSKS > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > 10856 From: Nalesnik, Matthew Date: Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:22am Subject: RE: Humour Re: Fire closes New York subway line I completely agree. Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: kondrak [mailto:kondrak@s...] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 12:06 PM To: TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [TSCM-L] Humour Re: Fire closes New York subway line True, The founders gave us two main tools to effect change in government. We have elections, and we have the second amendment. The election thing is almost worthless to pursue any more, for the process is corrupted and whored. Elections are stolen, the vote is corrupted, and soon, when unverified electronic voting becomes the norm, the outcomes will be known by the corruptors weeks before any election. It will put the criminality of previous notable gangs like "Tammany hall" to shame. At that point, the only remaining choice will be to fight, or sink into the serfdom of a socialist police-state. > >No, we're not technically a "Democracy", we're a Constitutional Republic, >but the preceding text still holds true. And it will see itself >self-evident as long as we have more whiners than doers. If it's broke, >then fix it - you as an American citizen actually do have that power. And >fortunately for most, you also have the power to whine just enough to not >really be heard, but at least you can piss off the people who don't agree >with you. ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS _____ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TSCM-L/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 10857 From: Tim Johnson Date: Fri Jan 28, 2005 7:07am Subject: RE: "Sound of Voices" ?????? Thanks. I've had a fews good giggles already and even a couple of semi precious stones were sighted. It was just that I was surprised to find so much unrelated info on a professional type site. I'll keep reading and gleaning. tim -- Tim Johnson Technical Security Consultants Inc. PO Box 1295 Carrollton, GA 30112 770-836-4898 770-712-2164 Cell What you say in private is your business. Keeping it private is ours. Georgia License # PDC 002074 Technical Security Consultants Inc. MemberINTELNET Espionage Research Institute Association of Former Office of Special Investigations Special Agents-Technical Agent http://www.dbugman.com This e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may contain privileged confidential, or proprietary information that is exempt from disclosure under law. If you have received this message in error, please inform us promptly by reply e-mail, then delete the e-mail and destroy any printed copy. Neither this information block, the typed name of the sender, or anything else in this message is intended to constitute an electronic signature for purposes of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act (E-Sign) unless a specific statement to the contrary is included in this message. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]