From: Dawn Star Date: Tue Feb 22, 2000 11:21am Subject: transformers You better watch out using transformers across phone lines, it is real easy to interfere with the ring cycle and cause all sorts of nasty things to happen. Roger Message: 2 Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:12:07 -0600 From: Trace Carpenter Subject: Re: switch software manipulation I haven't been in the office much lately, so I haven't followed this tread very closely. Therefore I apologize if this is redundant, however if monitoring the wire pair for audio passage is the problem, you can build a fantastic little interface out of a 1:1 transformer and a non polarized capacitor. Both available at your local RadShk for a couple of bucks. You can even use a three pair RJ surface jack as a project box for the interface. We use them all the time when we're bringing audio from one source to another to keep from getting that nasty hum that you'll often get from dissimilar grounds. In fact we came up with it for use in an East Texas radio station that was having that hum problem with their equipment that they used to put callers on the air. They're cheap, easy and the nice thing is that since the transformer is a 1:1 and the cap is non polarized, there is no wrong way to hook it up and your equipment is totally isolated from the wire pairs. Like I said, I haven't been able to follow this tread lately so if this answer doesn't fit the original question, please accept my apologies. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 62 From: Trace Carpenter Date: Tue Feb 22, 2000 0:11pm Subject: Re: transformers Hi Roger, Maybe I didn't make the application clear. The point of the transformer and capacitor is to create an isolation to insure that very thing does not happen. Dawn Star wrote: > From: "Dawn Star" > > You better watch out using transformers across phone lines, it is real easy to interfere with the ring cycle and cause all sorts of nasty things to happen. Roger > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:12:07 -0600 > From: Trace Carpenter > Subject: Re: switch software manipulation > > I haven't been in the office much lately, so I haven't followed this tread very > closely. Therefore I apologize if this is redundant, however if monitoring the wire > pair for audio passage is the problem, you can build a fantastic little interface > out of a 1:1 transformer and a non polarized capacitor. Both available at your > local RadShk for a couple of bucks. You can even use a three pair RJ surface jack > as a project box for the interface. > > We use them all the time when we're bringing audio from one source to another to > keep from getting that nasty hum that you'll often get from dissimilar grounds. In > fact we came up with it for use in an East Texas radio station that was having that > hum problem with their equipment that they used to put callers on the air. They're > cheap, easy and the nice thing is that since the transformer is a 1:1 and the cap is > non polarized, there is no wrong way to hook it up and your equipment is totally > isolated from the wire pairs. > > Like I said, I haven't been able to follow this tread lately so if this answer > doesn't fit the original question, please accept my apologies. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers, > electronics, Home furnishings and more. > http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/1/_/_/_/951242386/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... > =================================================== TSKS -- *Trace Carpenter *2926 Maple Ave., Ste. 200 *Dallas, Texas 75201 *214.828.4520; 214.740-0112 Facsimile *Because the fly on the wall might not be the only bug in the room.™ 63 From: Rex Throttle Date: Thu Feb 24, 2000 2:59am Subject: Blown operation in RSA Almost seems they wanted to get caught. ------ S.African spy chief defends German operation Ellis Mnyandu 02/24/00 CAPE TOWN, Feb 24 (Reuters) - South Africa's intelligence chief has defended a bungled operation to monitor visitors to the German embassy in Pretoria and said his service was well managed. ``As human beings we're fallible and therefore this incident represented an aberration rather than a norm,'' Intelligence Minister Joe Nhlanhla told Reuters. German diplomats last November found a camera in a tree focused on the entrance to their mission in Pretoria. Wires led from the camera to a recording device in a rubbish bin. Nhlanhla's ministry has not given a reason for the embassy operation, but South African newspaper reports said at the time the camera had been part of an operation to counter alleged recruitment of South Africans by the German intelligence. ``(This) is something that happens the world over. It happens with the best in the world. You can hardly be expected to work and somewhere along the road there's no mistake,'' Nhlanhla said. ``The incident of the German embassy I think is behind us now and I don't think it also meant anything out of the ordinary.'' Initially, South Africa denied spying on Germany, its biggest trading partner, but after an inquiry the government acknowledged earlier this month that the embassy had been under official surveillance. The Foreign Affairs Ministry said the ``act was conducted within the scope and framework of duty, it was nonetheless handled in an overzealous manner by an intelligence operative.'' It said Foreign Affairs Minister Nkosazana Zuma and German ambassador Harald Gannf had reaffirmed their commitment to sound relations between Berlin and Pretoria following the probe. Germany is South Africa's most important trading ally, with annual trade volume of around 22 billion rand ($3.5 billion), just ahead of Britain. Its Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer is scheduled to visit South Africa next month. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com 64 From: Robert C. Motzer <1RCM@M...> Date: Fri Feb 25, 2000 0:12am Subject: Re: Digest Number 191 To everyone on the list: There has been some mention in the last few digests about individual models of electronic telephone systems that do not take kindly to certain pairs being shorted, certain tests being conducted, etc that are tolerated well by most all other systems. I was just wondering if anyone on the list has a somewhat complete compilation of all of these little 'glitches' or knows of a commercial publication containing that information. If not, perhaps the moderator would consent to receiving all of the 'send- ins' from list members and compiling them into another worthwhile reference file on his already excellent resource page. I was just thinking that having the 'finds & mistakes' of others compiled in one place and available when you attack a beast you haven't checked before might save a whole lot of us from some real embarrassment and 2 AM panic every time we check a system that we have never come across before. Just another 'Bob' 65 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Fri Feb 25, 2000 6:46pm Subject: Re: Digest Number 191 At 1:12 AM -0500 2/25/00, Robert C. Motzer wrote: >From: "Robert C. Motzer" <1RCM@M...> > >To everyone on the list: > >There has been some mention in the last few digests about individual models >of electronic telephone systems that do not take kindly to certain pairs >being shorted, certain tests being conducted, etc that are tolerated well by >most all other systems. I was just wondering if anyone on the list has a >somewhat complete compilation of all of these little 'glitches' or knows of >a commercial publication containing that information. If not, perhaps the >moderator would consent to receiving all of the 'send- ins' from list >members and compiling them into another worthwhile reference file on his >already excellent resource page. > >I was just thinking that having the 'finds & mistakes' of others compiled in >one place and available when you attack a beast you haven't checked before >might save a whole lot of us from some real embarrassment and 2 AM panic >every time we check a system that we have never come across before. > >Just another 'Bob' Please do not take this the wrong way, as I don't mean to offend anybody. If you do not have a copy of the exact line specification or configuration (from the manuf.) and have not yet received formal training (from the factory) on the specific system you are about the test, then leave it alone (or be prepared to learn a very painful lesson and have embarassing experience). Several years back (around 90-91) a TSCM'er in the DC area blew up a huge brand new AT&T PBX system that had just been installed. He "lit up the PBX" with the "HV Pulse Function" present in the new phone analyser he had just bought (the damage to the PBX was over 14,000 dollars). If you don't have formal training on the PBX system which you are being asked to examine then hand the project off to someone to has. Blowing a fuse is one thing, but blowing out a line card is something your customer will never forget. -jma =================================================================== Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... =================================================================== Copyright 2000, James M. Atkinson, All Rights Reserved 66 From: Intelligence Inc. Date: Sun Feb 27, 2000 1:53pm Subject: Re: X Ray machine for sale Per Mr. Uhrig's comments and x-ray equipment for sale. Please note that in the State of California (and many other states), the operation of ANY x-ray devices require the operator to have a state issued Fluoroscopy license. And the device must be checked out by qualified personnel daily. Lee Lapin Steve Uhrig wrote: > > From: "Steve Uhrig" > > Once upon a midnight dreary, William L. McCrory pondered, weak and weary: > > > The statement, "You also can X ray your own or someone else's > > limbs," is unprofessional and suggests that the writer has little > > familiarity with radiation safety. > > The statement, essentially, is directly from the manufacturer's > literature. > > One *primary* application advertised for the device is realtime > use in sports, to X ray a player directly on the ball field. > > The EMT profession is a major consumer of this precise model > machine. > > > No one should routinely use a portable fluoroscope > > In TSCM one might use it a grand total of 60 minutes a year, in > 15 second increments. > > > They are not magic wands. They cannot find bombs and they > > cannot find "bugs." They can only highlight objects which, to > > the well-trained observer, indicate that further close > > physical or instrumental examination is necessary. > > Don't we all say this to each other about every piece of sweep > equipment, with my soapbox showing quite a bit more wear than > most? > > > Before buying this or any other used fluoroscopic equipment, > > insist that it first be examined by a qualified inspector > > I *said* the things were at the factory for checkout and would > not ship until blessed by them. > > Steve > > ******************************************************************* > Steve Uhrig, SWS Security, Maryland (USA) > Mfrs of electronic surveillance equip > mailto:Steve@s... website http://www.swssec.com > tel +1+410-879-4035, fax +1+410-836-1190 > "In God we trust, all others we monitor" > ******************************************************************* > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Free Valentine’s Day Delivery from Petopia.com. > Looking for that pet-perfect Valentine’s Day gift? > Click here for free delivery with purchases of $25 or more. > Click Here > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... > =================================================== TSKS 67 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Sun Feb 28, 1999 11:02am Subject: Vision Next time someone implies that something that is part of your future vision is impossible, improbable or even impractical, remember this list. (And perhaps quote them a favorite selection!) Enjoy the "wisdom of the ages". ************************************************* "Computers in the future may weigh no more than 15 tons." --"Popular Mechanics," forecasting the relentless march of science, 1949. ---------------------------------------------------- "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." --Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943. ---------------------------------------------------- "I have traveled the length and breadth of this country... and talked with the best people, and I can assure you that data processing is a fad that won't last out the year." --The editor in charge of business books for Prentice Hall, 1957. ------------------------------------------------------ "But what...is it good for ?" -- Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM commenting on the microchip, 1968. ------------------------------------------------------ "There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." --Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977 --------------------------------------------------- "This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us." -- Western Union internal memo, 1876. ----------------------------------------------------- "The wireless music box has no imaginable commercial value. Who would pay for a message sent to nobody in particular ?" -- David Sarnoff's associates (NBC) in response to his urgings for investment in the radio in the 1920s. --------------------------------------------------- "The concept is interesting and well-formed, but in order to earn better than a 'C,' the idea must be feasible." -- A Yale University management professor in response to Fred Smith's paper proposing reliable overnight delivery service. (Smith went on to found Federal Express Corp.) ----------------------------------------------------- "Who the hell wants to hear actors talk ?" -- Harry M. Warner, Warner Brothers, 1927. ------------------------------------------------------- "I'm just glad it'll be Clark Gable who's falling on his face and not Gary Cooper." --Gary Cooper on his decision not to take the leading role in "Gone with the Wind." ------------------------------------------------------- "A cookie store is a bad idea. Besides, the market research reports say America likes crispy cookies, not soft and chewy cookies like you make." -- Response to Debbi Fields' idea of starting her company, Mrs. Fields' Cookies. ---------------------------------------------------- "We don't like their sound, and guitar music is on the way out." -- Decca Recording Co. rejecting the Beatles, 1962. ------------------------------------------------------ "Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible." --Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895. ----------------------------------------------------- "If I had thought about it, I wouldn't have done the experiment. The literature was full of examples that said you can't do this." -- Spencer Silver, on the work that led to nthe unique adhesives on 3-M "Post-It" Notepads. --------------------------------------------------------- "So we went to Atari and said, 'Hey, we've got this amazing thing, even built with some of your parts, and what do you think about funding us ? Or we'll give it to you. We just want to do it. Pay our salary, we'll come work for you.' And they said, 'No.' So then we went to Hewlett- Packard, and they said, 'Hey, we don't need you; you haven't got through college yet.'" --Apple Computer Inc. founder Steve Jobs on attempts to get Atari and H-P interested in his and Steve Wozniak's personal computer. ------------------------------------------------------- "Professor Goddard does not know the relation between action and reaction... and the need to have something better than a vacuum against which to react. He seems to lack the basic knowledge ladled out daily in high schools." -- New York Times editorial about Robert Goddard's revolutionary rocket work, 1921. ------------------------------------------------------ "You want to have consistent and uniform muscle development across all of your muscles ? It can't be done. It's just a fact of life. You just have to accept inconsistent muscle development as an unalterable condition of weight training." -- Response to Arthur Jones, who solved the "unsolvable" problem by inventing Nautilus. ------------------------------------------------------- "Drill for oil ? You mean drill into the ground to try and find oil ? You're crazy." -- Drillers who Edwin L. Drake tried to enlist to his project to drill for oil in 1859. ------------------------------------------------------ "Stocks have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau." -- Irving Fisher, Professor of Economics, Yale University, 1929. --------------------------------------------------------- "Airplanes are interesting toys but of no military value." -- Marechal Ferdinand Foch, Professor of Strategy, Ecole Superieure de Guerre. -------------------------------------------------------- "Everything that can be invented has been invented." -- Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. Office of Patents, 1899. ------------------------------------------------------ "Louis Pasteur's theory of germs is ridiculous fiction." --Pierre Pachet, Professor of Physiology at Toulouse, 1872. --------------------------------------------------------- "The abdomen, the chest and the brain will forever be shut from the intrusion of the wise and humane surgeon." --Sir John Eric Ericksen, British surgeon, appointed Surgeon-Extraordinary to Queen Victoria, 1873. --------------------------------------------------------- "640k ought to be enough for anybody." -- Bill Gates, 1981 --------------------------------------------------------- =================================================================== Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... =================================================================== Copyright 2000, James M. Atkinson, All Rights Reserved 68 From: Trace Carpenter Date: Mon Feb 28, 2000 4:36pm Subject: Tempo Sidekick 7B For Sale If anyone is interested I ended up with an extra NEW STYLE Sidekick 7B recently that I'd like to sell. If you're not familiar with the Sidekick it is THE test set used by every major telephone company in the United States to troubleshoot twisted pair applications. Additionally, please note that this is the NEW Version which also has AC capabilities as well as the larger display. Not the old squared off unit. Among it's features are a single setup for testing Tip-Ring, Tip Ground, and Ring-Ground testing via a three lead hook-up. Plus your butt set hooks up to the meter which allows you to easily check on and off hook voltages with a single hook up. If you're interested you can see that actual meter at http://counterspies.com/sidekick I've also included a link to the manufactures page. The unit sells new through Power Telephone Supply for $670.00. I have found them used through Schultz for $400.00. I'm asking $285.00 for this one and will pay the shipping in the Continental U.S. Thanks -- *Trace Carpenter *2926 Maple Ave., Ste. 200 *Dallas, Texas 75201 *214.828.4520; 214.740-0112 Facsimile *Because the fly on the wall might not be the only bug in the room.™ 69 From: Dawn Star Date: Tue Feb 29, 2000 5:37pm Subject: 2.4 GHz On a recent sweep I ran into a Siemens Gigaset cordless digital 2420 phone system (2.4 GHz). http://www.ic.siemens.ca/prod/2420more.htm http://www.ic.siemens.ca/prod/2420.htm http://www.siemenscordless.com/cordless/userguide/AppendixD.html http://www.siemenscordless.com/cordless/faqs.html http://www.siemenscordless.com/about/resources/digcord.html The system uses time division duplexing and time division multiple access. It uses digital voice coding and frequency hopping spread spectrum, (100 hops per second). Also adaptive differential pulse code modulation. Voice sampling bit rate of 32kbps. To make a long story short, this damn thing is almost invisible to a spectrum analyzer and keeps a frequency counter spinning. Has anyone tried the REI VBA-2400 video booster antenna, claims to give 20 db of gain @ 2.4 Ghz http://www.research-electronics.com/brochures.htm click under oscor. I wonder it this might help? Any suggestions, if we cant see these puppies we are in big trouble! Roger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 70 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Tue Feb 29, 2000 6:09pm Subject: Re: 2.4 GHz At 6:37 PM -0500 2/29/00, Dawn Star wrote: >From: "Dawn Star" > >On a recent sweep I ran into a Siemens Gigaset cordless digital 2420 phone >system (2.4 GHz). > >http://www.ic.siemens.ca/prod/2420more.htm > >http://www.ic.siemens.ca/prod/2420.htm > >http://www.siemenscordless.com/cordless/userguide/AppendixD.html > >http://www.siemenscordless.com/cordless/faqs.html > >http://www.siemenscordless.com/about/resources/digcord.html > >The system uses time division duplexing and time division multiple access. >It uses digital voice coding and frequency hopping spread spectrum, (100 >hops per second). Also adaptive differential pulse code modulation. Voice >sampling bit rate of 32kbps. To make a long story short, this damn thing >is almost invisible to a spectrum analyzer and keeps a frequency counter >spinning. Has anyone tried the REI VBA-2400 video booster antenna, claims >to give 20 db of gain @ 2.4 Ghz >http://www.research-electronics.com/brochures.htm click under oscor. >I wonder it this might help? >Any suggestions, if we cant see these puppies we are in big trouble! > >Roger Roger, The Gigasets can be easily detected with a "paper clip antenna" and spectrum analyser a good 50-100 feet away inside of a house or office building. If we add the VBA (which is one hell of a product for the amount they cost) the detection can range can increased to as much as hundred of feet (I can detect them a good 500-800 feet away). For my initial checks of the 2.4 GHz band I start with a "paper clip" (in case something is spitting out hundreds of watts of RF). Once I am certain that I am not going to "poof" my SA I switch to the REI VBA (or my older active crossed log). Once I am happy with the results I move to a high gain waveguide and LNA combo (around 45 dB of gain) to scan 1-18 GHz spectrum in detail. The VBA is handy, battery powered, and small (unlike a 15+ pound waveguide and LNA combo). Couple it with a Radio Shack 2.4 Rcvr, and a small 4" TV and it's single to hunt down 2.4 GHz devices (for less then $1000). If any of the list members are interested, we are offering the VBA at $495.00, and the new OSCOR 21 GHz microwave convertor at only $9,850.00. As a courtesy to list members we will pickup the shipping and handling charges for 2nd day delivery. -jma =================================================================== Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... =================================================================== Copyright 2000, James M. Atkinson, All Rights Reserved 71 From: Charles Patterson Date: Tue Feb 29, 2000 11:05pm Subject: Re: 2.4 GHz You may also be interested that the Siemens Gigaset also has a "room monitor" mode. Not what you might expect, you can leave the handset in a room and it will activate and call the base when it detects sound above a certain level in the room. Can't give up that physical inspection yet! charles ----- Original Message ----- From: Dawn Star To: Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 6:37 PM Subject: [TSCM-L] 2.4 GHz > > From: "Dawn Star" > > On a recent sweep I ran into a Siemens Gigaset cordless digital 2420 phone system (2.4 GHz). > > http://www.ic.siemens.ca/prod/2420more.htm > > http://www.ic.siemens.ca/prod/2420.htm > > http://www.siemenscordless.com/cordless/userguide/AppendixD.html > > http://www.siemenscordless.com/cordless/faqs.html > > http://www.siemenscordless.com/about/resources/digcord.html > > The system uses time division duplexing and time division multiple access. It uses digital voice coding and frequency hopping spread spectrum, (100 hops per second). Also adaptive differential pulse code modulation. Voice sampling bit rate of 32kbps. To make a long story short, this damn thing is almost invisible to a spectrum analyzer and keeps a frequency counter spinning. Has anyone tried the REI VBA-2400 video booster antenna, claims to give 20 db of gain @ 2.4 Ghz > http://www.research-electronics.com/brochures.htm click under oscor. I wonder it this might help? > Any suggestions, if we cant see these puppies we are in big trouble! > Roger > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Registering a domain name is quick and easy. > http://click.egroups.com/1/1611/0/_/507420/_/951867216/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... > =================================================== TSKS > 72 From: MICROSEARCH Date: Thu Mar 2, 2000 7:49am Subject: X-ray inspections A few days ago someone posted a message about laws requiring the licensing of x-ray units, and the requirement that they be inspected daily. According to section 115085 of the California Health & Safety Code, the frequency of inspection depends on the type of unit. Mammography units require annual inspection, whereas the units used in dental offices require an inspection every five years. I didn't spend a great deal of time on the research, but the only permit and/or licensing requirements I saw related to the medical use of x-ray units. A search on the OSHA web site yielded very little information about x-ray units. The main topic at OSHA concerned reacting to complaints about over exposure. People often overestimate the amount of danger associated with x-ray exposure. The small portable C-arm units are completely safe for use in TSCM work. Best regards, Rick Hofmann, CCO, CPP PI16998 MICROSEARCH - Technical Surveillance Countermeasures - Counterespionage P.O.Box 2084 - Cypress, Ca. 90630 714-952-3812 Fax:714-209-0037 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 73 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Thu Mar 2, 2000 2:33pm Subject: Voltages As per another list members request: The following is a listing of the various voltages commonly found within residential and business construction, but not including distribution voltages (such as 480 volts, etc). All of the following will typically be found in offices, bathrooms, homes, closets, kitchens, etc located in the U.S. In most residential buildings you will have 120 and 240 VAC commonly used, but in commerical buildings, mansions, (and apartment buildings) you will often find 480 VAC circuits. I have actually performed TSCM at large estates which had a 15,000 volt substation on the property that fed 480 volts into each of the buildings via transformers, which in turn provided 220/240/250V UPS systems and generators, which in turn provided 120 volts for the lighting, power etc. Of course the list does not include "everything" but it is a good place to start. Please feel free to add to the list. Note: Unless you know otherwise; assume that there is 600 volts present (or soon to be present) on all wires you are about to test. Until you know that a lower voltage (and current) is involved consider all conductors to be potentially lethal. Yes, you may have a 30 kHz, 50 mV RF signal present in the Traverse Mode, but it may also be riding on a 480 volt three phase circuit. Remember to check all conductor combination both in relatioship to other conductors, to ground, to free space, and to "other signal paths". ---------- Hard Wired Door Bells and Buzzer Systems 3-6 VDC (usually battery powered) 8-16 VAC (usually transformer powered) 24 VAC (transformer powered) Fluorescent Electromagnetic Ballasts 120 VAC 277 VAC Thermostats and HVAC Controls millivolts (Common with computerized systems) 24-30 VAC (Typical Thermostat) 120 VAC (Typically Baseboard or Similar Radiant Systems) 250 VAC (Typically Baseboard or Similar Radiant Systems) 277 VAC (Typically Baseboard or Similar Radiant Systems) Hot Water Heaters 24 VDC (Typical Thermostat) 24 VAC (Typical Thermostat) 120 VAC 240 VAC CATV 8 - 60 VDC (For Line Repeaters) Telephone (don't get me started) [grin] ...of course your mileage may vary -jma =================================================================== Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... =================================================================== Copyright 2000, James M. Atkinson, All Rights Reserved 74 From: Warren Wotton Date: Thu Mar 2, 2000 10:59am Subject: Re: Voltages James. A short note from a Electrican; New construction in commercial bldg.s Power crct.s 600-575,208,3phase,120vrecp.s and lights. Higher efficency lighting systems at 347v usually with low voltage relay switching 24v and microprocessor control. At 03:33 PM 3/2/00 -0500, you wrote: >From: "James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng" > >As per another list members request: > >The following is a listing of the various voltages commonly found within >residential and business construction, but not including distribution >voltages (such as 480 volts, etc). > >All of the following will typically be found in offices, bathrooms, homes, >closets, kitchens, etc located in the U.S. > >In most residential buildings you will have 120 and 240 VAC commonly used, >but in commerical buildings, mansions, (and apartment buildings) you will >often find 480 VAC circuits. > >I have actually performed TSCM at large estates which had a 15,000 volt >substation on the property that fed 480 volts into each of the buildings >via transformers, which in turn provided 220/240/250V UPS systems and >generators, which in turn provided 120 volts for the lighting, power etc. > >Of course the list does not include "everything" but it is a good place to >start. > >Please feel free to add to the list. > > >Note: Unless you know otherwise; assume that there is 600 volts present (or >soon to be present) on all wires you are about to test. Until you know that >a lower voltage (and current) is involved consider all conductors to be >potentially lethal. Yes, you may have a 30 kHz, 50 mV RF signal present in >the Traverse Mode, but it may also be riding on a 480 volt three phase >circuit. > >Remember to check all conductor combination both in relatioship to other >conductors, to ground, to free space, and to "other signal paths". > >---------- > >Hard Wired Door Bells and Buzzer Systems > > 3-6 VDC (usually battery powered) > 8-16 VAC (usually transformer powered) > 24 VAC (transformer powered) > > >Fluorescent Electromagnetic Ballasts > > 120 VAC > 277 VAC > > >Thermostats and HVAC Controls > > millivolts (Common with computerized systems) > 24-30 VAC (Typical Thermostat) > > 120 VAC (Typically Baseboard or Similar Radiant Systems) > 250 VAC (Typically Baseboard or Similar Radiant Systems) > 277 VAC (Typically Baseboard or Similar Radiant Systems) > > >Hot Water Heaters > > 24 VDC (Typical Thermostat) > 24 VAC (Typical Thermostat) > > 120 VAC > 240 VAC > > >CATV > > 8 - 60 VDC (For Line Repeaters) > > >Telephone > > > (don't get me started) [grin] > > > >...of course your mileage may vary > >-jma > > =================================================================== > Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? > =================================================================== > James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 > Granite Island Group > 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ > Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... > =================================================================== > Copyright 2000, James M. Atkinson, All Rights Reserved > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as 2.9% >Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. Apply NOW! >http://click.egroups.com/1/936/0/_/507420/_/952029409/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: >http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... >=================================================== TSKS > > Warren Wotton Contact: Brandon University Wotton@B... 270-18th Street 204-727-9665 Brandon,Manitoba CANADA R7A 6A9 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmission is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify us immediately by return E-mail or by telephone at 204-727-4475 and destroy the transmission by deleting the file and/or shredding any paper copy. 75 From: Mike F. Date: Fri Mar 3, 2000 6:29pm Subject: VOLTAGES,commercial & residential The voltages found in most residential systems,is a single phase Edison system.You can get 240 volt for say a dryer circuit from this type of system. In a lot of commercial building you will have the above configuration and then you will have the 480 volt 3 phase panel(s). This being used for large air conditioners and othe equipment with motors. On the 3 phase you get 480 volt phase to phase,A-PHASE,B-PHASE,& C-PHASE. So you can get 480volt from A TO B,A TO C,AND B TO C. In the panel you will have ground bar which we'll call G. 277 volt phase to ground.So for 277volt A TO G,B TO G,C TO G. It would be more accurate to use a Nuetral,therefore it is really, A TO N,B TO N,C TO N for your 277volts, The 277 voltage is used primarily in Lighting systems. later4,mike fiorentino 76 From: Jay Coote Date: Fri Feb 4, 2005 3:40pm Subject: Panasonic Phone Switch Assistance Has anyone looked into the vulnerabilities of a Panasonic KX-T123211D switching system? It looks as if remote and on-site programming can be accomplished. Remote programming (per their badly written manual) looks like PC-programmable via modem and generic comm software or dumb terminal and modem. There is a SYSTEM switch marked EIA (local programming) SET for remote programming and PITS (they don't say what PITS is for). I would like to eliminate any back door programming or lines, as well as cut out the programming features and change the access code. "RTFM" Thanks, Jay ˙ 77 From: Charles Patterson Date: Fri Mar 3, 2000 11:47pm Subject: Re: Panasonic Phone Switch Assistance Hi Jay, You are mostly correct. The 123211D can be programmed remotely as long as it has the required cards installed in it. If you have looked inside the cabinet, the cards used for remote programming will be in the upper shelf. The first card needed is the KXT123291, DISA card, the second card needed is the KXT123296 modem card. If the modem card is not there, then remote programming cannot be done. There may also be a remote diagnostic card: KXT123295, or a second DISA card KXT123292. The DISA cards provide "Direct Inward System Access" - the ability to dial in from outside and reach another extension directly, but they do not provide any remote programming capability by themselves. The modem card is required. Most installers do not use remote programming on this system. The switch on the side selects programming by direct rs232 connection (EIA) or PITS which is Panasonics fun anacronim for "proprietary integrated telephone set" (they love weird letter combinations). PITS programming means programming by the telephone set. The set plugged into the lowest numbered jack (usually 101) becomes a programming phone when the switch is thrown. When the switch is in EIA mode I believe it basically shuts down the phone system for direct connect programming (RS232), so that is not used very often either. hope this helps! Charles Charles Patterson communications@c... Global Communications Tarrytown, NY http://www.telephonesecurity.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Jay Coote To: Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 8:59 PM Subject: [TSCM-L] Panasonic Phone Switch Assistance > > From: "Jay Coote" > > Has anyone looked into the vulnerabilities of a Panasonic KX-T123211D > switching system? It looks as if remote and on-site programming can be accomplished. Remote programming (per their badly written manual) > looks like PC-programmable via modem and generic comm software > or dumb terminal and modem. There is a SYSTEM switch marked EIA > (local programming) SET for remote programming and PITS (they don't > say what PITS is for). > > I would like to eliminate any back door programming or lines, as well > as cut out the programming features and change the access code. > > "RTFM" > > Thanks, > Jay > ˙ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > MAXIMIZE YOUR CARD, MINIMIZE YOUR RATE! > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/2122/0/_/507420/_/952135149/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... > =================================================== TSKS > 78 From: Miguel Puchol Date: Sun Mar 5, 2000 5:44pm Subject: RE: 2.4 GHz Hi all, > The Gigasets can be easily detected with a "paper clip antenna" and > spectrum analyser a good 50-100 feet away inside of a house or office > building. Just to add some comments on the Gigaset question. I own a couple of them, and they are great cordless phones. Regarding detection, it must be said that the DECT standard states, and you will find this in some Gigaset manuals, that the phones use 120 duplex channels, between 1880 and 1900 MHz in 1728 kHz channel steps. Binary speed of each slot within a channel is 1152 kbit/s, with an average power output of 10 mW. The signal can be easily be picked up by a decent scanner (AR5000 for example) by scanning 1880 MHz up in steps of 1728 kHz. If anybody is interested in knowing what they sound like, I can record some audio and send it across, let me know. Cheers, Mike 79 From: Dawn Star Date: Sat Mar 11, 2000 6:11pm Subject: The Passing of Norman Perle I would like to take a moment of your time to talk about my friend, Norman Perle. He passed to the Spirit World on February 19, 2000 while at a security convention in California. He was 61 years old. I met Norman back in 1973 when I first started in counter-measures. There were only three people doing bug sweeps in Los Angeles at that time: Norm, a fellow named Sergio Borquez and myself. When I attempted in those early days to contact Norm, he was reluctant to talk and was very secretive about his business and techniques. At that time he had an office in a high-rise building off of Hollywood Blvd. As the years went by and he realized that there was plenty of business for everybody, he became more friendly. Eventually, we started sharing information on devices that were found and techniques that we were developing with the TDR, which at that time was brand new. Somewhere in the late '70's Norman decided to shift his focus to being an expert in the area of audiotape verification. He became an expert witness in this area and certainly one of the best-known in all of the country. If my memory serves me right, he worked on the Nixon tapes. In the past 10 years or so, when I had visited him at his home office in Northridge, it was kind of like going to Dr. Frankenstein's laboratory. His lab was filled from floor to ceiling with stacks of technical information, test equipment, and associated components. There was barely room to walk yet he seemed to know where everything was. He at that time showed me some of the advance technology and techniques of micro-photographing of audio images. I would like to honor my friend at this time by telling one of our shared bug-sweep stories. Some years ago, I was in Las Vegas sweeping some gambling casinos. I got an emergency call from Los Angeles from a noted civil rights attorney. Some Palestinian people had been arrested by the federal government and charged with terrorism. This attorney thought that the federal government was bugging the phones at the defense attorney's offices. The circumstances of the case were that the Arab Defense League had set up a defense team for these men that were charged at an existing attorney's office in West Los Angeles. After about a week, or ten days, the activity became too much to handle at this office. So the defense team was moved across town to an office in Hollywood. The first day that the new telephone lines were operational in the new Hollywood office, the secretaries found that they were talking to the secretaries at the old office across town. The lines in both locations were cross-connected. The government, after discovering that the office had moved, had also moved their wiretaps to the trunks of the new location but had forgotten to lift the taps at the old location. This led to the lines at both offices being crossed. I called Norman and told him that I couldn't get back fast enough for this situation and asked him if he could handle it in my place. He took off right away to the attorney's office. He was able, in a matter of hours, to get the technical evidence to support this finding. The defense team immediately went to federal court with a discovery order for a wiretap on legal counsel's lines. The federal judge was outraged and ordered the government to show cause. Within a short period of time, all charges against the defendants were dropped and the men were set free. I am grateful for Norman doing excellent work for me in my absence. He was an extremely dedicated and meticulous individual. He did whatever it took to the 'nth' degree to present the best evidence possible. Norman is survived by his wife Barbara Perle and their two children. Barbara asks that anyone that would like to could make a donation in Norman's name to the American Diabetes Society. Barbara can be contacted by mail at Barbara Perle, 8357 Shirley Avenue, Northridge CA 91324. Norman, you will be greatly missed and hopefully we will aspire to do the quality work that you did when you were on the frontline. Thank you for being my friend for so many years. Roger Tolces [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 80 From: Michael Martz Date: Sun Mar 12, 2000 2:19pm Subject: For Sale: Kaiser SCD5 Hello, I have an unused new in box Marty Kaiser SCD5 Carrier Current detector for sale for $200 if anybody needs one. The battery powered SCD5 detects VLF (10 KHz to 700 KHz) carrier-current signals on AC power or telephone lines. The unit is supplied withdetector/amplifier assembly, AC and telephone input cables (both protected to 400 volts DC or 50/60 Hz AC) and headset. Please email for any questions. Thanks, MM 81 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Fri Mar 17, 2000 3:47pm Subject: Larry LaPrise There was recently a great loss in the entertainment world this week. Larry LaPrise, the Detroit native who wrote the song "Hokey Pokey", died recently at the age of 83. It was especially difficult for the family. They had trouble keeping him in the casket. They'd put his left leg in and, well... you know the rest. Happy St. Patties Day -jma =================================================================== Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... =================================================================== Copyright 2000, James M. Atkinson, All Rights Reserved 82 From: Brown & Sikes Date: Fri Mar 17, 2000 6:48pm Subject: Re: For Sale: Kaiser SCD5 Michael; Sorry, just got around to looking over the e-mails. Is the c/c detector still available? Let me know. Thanks Martin Brown brnsike@s... Michael Martz wrote: > From: Michael Martz > > Hello, > > I have an unused new in box Marty Kaiser SCD5 Carrier Current > detector for sale for $200 if anybody needs one. > > The battery powered SCD5 detects VLF (10 KHz to 700 KHz) > carrier-current signals on AC power or telephone lines. The unit is > supplied withdetector/amplifier assembly, AC and telephone input > cables (both protected to 400 volts DC or 50/60 Hz AC) and headset. > > Please email for any questions. > > Thanks, > > MM > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > DON'T HATE YOUR RATE! > Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as > 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees. > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/2120/0/_/507420/_/953072859/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... > =================================================== TSKS 83 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 1:28pm Subject: Massachusetts Driving Rules [Humor] Massachusetts Driving Rules [Humor] 1. A right lane construction closure is just a game to see how many people can cut in line by passing you on the right as you sit in the left lane waiting for the same drivers to squeeze their way back in before hitting the orange construction barrels. 2. Turn signals will give away your next move. A real Massachusetts driver never uses them. Use of them in Boston may be illegal. 3. Under no circumstances should you leave a safe distance between you and the car in front of you, or the space will be filled in by somebody else putting you in an even more dangerous situation. 4. Crossing two or more lanes in a single lane-change is considered "going with the flow." 5. The faster you drive through a red light, the smaller the chance you have of getting hit. 6. Never get in the way of an older car that needs extensive bodywork. Massachusetts is a no-fault insurance states and the other driver has nothing to lose. 7. Braking is to be done as hard and late as possible to ensure that your ABS kicks in, giving a nice, relaxing foot massage as the brake pedal pulsates. For those of you without ABS, it's a chance to stretch your legs. 8. Construction signs warn you about road closures immediately after you pass the last exit before the backup. 9. The new electronic traffic warning system signs are not there to provide useful information. They are only there to make Massachusetts look high-tech and to distract you from seeing the State Police Radar car parked on the median. 10. Never pass on the left when you can pass on the right. 11. Speed limits are arbitrary figures, given only as suggestions and are apparently not enforceable during rush hour. 12. Just because you're in the left lane and have no room to speed up or move over doesn't mean that a Mass driver flashing his high beams behind you doesn't think he can go faster in your spot. 13. Please remember that New Hampshire is the Granite State, named so for a reason. Try to stay on the road. 14. Always slow down and rubberneck when you see an accident or even if someone is just changing a tire. 15. Throwing litter on the roads adds variety to the landscape and gives Adopt-a-Highway Crews something to clean up. 16. It is assumed that State Police cars passing at high speed may be followed in the event you need to make up a few minutes in your travel. 17. Learn to swerve abruptly. Massachusetts is the home of high-speed slalom driving thanks to DOT, which places potholes in various locations to test drivers' reflexes. 18. It is traditional in Massachusetts to honk your horn at cars that don't move the instant the light changes. 19. Seeking eye contact with another driver revokes your right of way, except in Boston where it acts as an invitation to duel or play chicken. 20. Never take a green light at face value. Always look right and left before proceeding. (In Maine it is allowed to stop and then decide which direction to turn.) 21. Remember that the goal of every Massachusetts driver is to get there first, by whatever means necessary. 22. Real Massachusetts female drivers can put on pantyhose, apply eye makeup and balance the checkbook at seventy-five miles per hour during a snowstorm in bumper-to-bumper traffic. 23. Real Massachusetts male drivers can remove pantyhose and a bra at seventy-five miles per hour in bumper-to-bumper traffic during daylight hours. 24. Heavy snow, ice, fog, and rain are no reasons to change any of the previously listed rules. These weather conditions are God's way of ensuring a natural selection process for body shops,junk yards, and new vehicle sales. =================================================================== Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... =================================================================== Copyright 2000, James M. Atkinson, All Rights Reserved 84 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 4:34pm Subject: Estimate Worksheet for TSCM Services Good Afternoon, I will be adding a "Estimate Worksheet for TSCM Services" to my website and would like to solicit opinions (in private) before I make it live. The worksheet (which is still in Draft form) may be found at the following address: http://www.tscm.com/SweepsEstimate.html I have been using a similar estimation worksheet, but would like to offer something the consumer can fill out. Do you think it would be helpful to add a paragraph explaining each block of the worksheet, or should I post it just as it is? Thank You, -jma =================================================================== Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... =================================================================== Copyright 2000, James M. Atkinson, All Rights Reserved 85 From: Date: Mon Mar 20, 2000 4:55pm Subject: Re: Estimate Worksheet for TSCM Services Greetings. I am of the opinion that your document on pricing is self-explanatory. Maybe a link on each aspect linking to a page that explains the process in detail would be efficacious. Kanbanwa, Erik. http://community.webtv.net/Negative-/Gotterdammerung 86 From: Trace Carpenter Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 8:46am Subject: Re: Estimate Worksheet for TSCM Services I like the sheet and although it is self explanatory to those of us in the profession, a description might be beneficial to the end customer. If they don't need it, no damage is done. "James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng" wrote: > From: "James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng" > > Good Afternoon, > > I will be adding a "Estimate Worksheet for TSCM Services" to my > website and would like to solicit opinions (in private) before I make > it live. > > The worksheet (which is still in Draft form) may be found at the > following address: > > http://www.tscm.com/SweepsEstimate.html > > I have been using a similar estimation worksheet, but would like to > offer something the consumer can fill out. > > Do you think it would be helpful to add a paragraph explaining each > block of the worksheet, or should I post it just as it is? > > Thank You, > > -jma > =================================================================== > Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? > =================================================================== > James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 > Granite Island Group > 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ > Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... > =================================================================== > Copyright 2000, James M. Atkinson, All Rights Reserved > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates > as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees. > Apply NOW! > http://click.egroups.com/1/975/0/_/507420/_/953591678/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.onelist.com/community/TSCM-L > > or email your subscription request to: > subTSCM-L@t... > =================================================== TSKS -- *Trace Carpenter *2926 Maple Ave., Ste. 200 *Dallas, Texas 75201 *214.828.4520; 214.740-0112 Facsimile *Because the fly on the wall might not be the only bug in the room.™ 87 From: Jay Coote Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 7:47pm Subject: TSCM receivers With the shadow of asinine receiver/scanner laws looming over US security and TSCM persons.... what can one do to obtain a receiver (for legitimate TSCM use) which has not been electronically neutered? It would be just like a 'bugger' to set his/her device to transmit within the coverage gaps of US-market receivers.... Jay Coote TSCM@j... 88 From: James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 8:43pm Subject: Re: TSCM receivers At 9:26 PM -0500 3/21/00, Jay Coote wrote: >From: "Jay Coote" > >With the shadow of asinine receiver/scanner laws looming over >US security and TSCM persons.... what can one do to obtain >a receiver (for legitimate TSCM use) which has not been >electronically neutered? >It would be just like a 'bugger' to set his/her device to transmit >within the coverage gaps of US-market receivers.... >Jay Coote >TSCM@j... > A round trip airplane ticket to Canada is easiest method. -jma =================================================================== Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes? =================================================================== James M. Atkinson Phone: (978) 546-3803 Granite Island Group 127 Eastern Avenue #291 http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008 jmatk@t... =================================================================== Copyright 2000, James M. Atkinson, All Rights Reserved 89 From: Scott Malcolm Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:51pm Subject: Re: Digest Number 202 > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:34:12 -0500 > From: "James M. Atkinson, Comm-Eng" > Subject: Estimate Worksheet for TSCM Services > > Good Afternoon, > > I will be adding a "Estimate Worksheet for TSCM Services" to my > website and would like to solicit opinions (in private) before I make > it live. > > The worksheet (which is still in Draft form) may be found at the > following address: > > http://www.tscm.com/SweepsEstimate.html >snip James, I just added your: Optional Written Report (Typically 10% of total fee) to my present contract. Most of my clients could care less about a report up an over the hard documented findings. Excellent time saver. Regards, Scott Malcolm Malcolm & Associates Inc. Serving the State of Wisconsin Office 262 965 4426 Fax 262 965 4629 http://www.execpc.com/~conf-pi "Your Confidential Alternative" 90 From: Hoffman Date: Tue Mar 21, 2000 8:24pm Subject: Re: TSCM receivers > With the shadow of asinine receiver/scanner laws looming over > US security and TSCM persons.... what can one do to obtain > a receiver (for legitimate TSCM use) which has not been > electronically neutered? > Jay Coote ------------------------------------ Hoffman replies: Legitimate electronic test equipment is exempt from the laws you mentioned in 18 U.S.C. Chapter 119, Sec 2512. The only reason that companies like OPTOELECTRONICS, and the various scanner manufacturers block the cell band in my opinion, is because they are too cowardly, and they lack the testicular fortitude to claim that their equipment is for telecommunication company use, and so they are afraid of reprisals by rabid federal law enforcement. Anyway, whenever I want a scanning receiver which covers the cellular band, I just order it from various U.S. mail-order resellers. Despite common myth, there are lots of people who are all too happy to ignore the law; you just have to know who the "friendlies" are that will sell you the goods. I'll give you advice on how to purchase such units. It's just like illicit drugs. At first it seems as if nobody is selling the stuff, but if you do a little digging and scratch the surface; make some telephone calls; buy some products from dealers; and get to know people... You'll then realize that you can get cell capable scanners with no problem, so long as you've got the green.