From: delta Date: Thu May 25, 2000 2:41am Subject: bug frequence in france hello everybody since 10 years i practice sweep. i can tell you that : the most often frequencies found for bugs here in france are in vhf frequencies 140 mhz to 144 and 146 to 150 mhz sometimes 430 to 440 juste in the amateur radio band sometimes 88 to 108 mhz juste in the wfm radio bande but now the more popular listenning is realised with a simple phone gsm in 900 mhz with the open mic configuration. many thanks for this liste and sorry for my poor language !!! david from paris http://www.deltafrance.com 8717 From: savanted1 Date: Tue May 25, 2004 10:30am Subject: Judge Says Police Need Warrant to Use GPS Nassau County Court judge Joseph Calabrese has ruled police should have obtained a warrant before using a GPS device to track Richard Lacey. According to Calabrese, in order to use a GPS device in an investigation, police must show a judge that they have "probable cause to believe evidence of a crime is likely to be found." At the center of the controversy over the use of GPS devices by law enforcement officials is the expectation of privacy when walking on the sidewalk or driving down a public street. Calabrese asserted that Lacey did not have an expectation of privacy in that he was driving someone else's car "for the sole purpose of furthering a criminal enterprise." However, despite his ruling that police should have obtained a warrant, Calabrese said that prosecutors would be allowed to use the incriminating GPS evidence against Lacey at his trial. Currently, more than a half-dozen states are dealing with legal challenges to police use of GPS devices. http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-li gps123810064may20,0,4656641.story?coll=ny-linews-headlines 8718 From: Steve Uhrig Date: Tue May 25, 2004 0:06pm Subject: Re: Thermography in TSCM Once upon a midnight dreary, redelst pondered, weak and weary: > Some years ago I had done some training with the folks at Audiotel in > the UK, and had asked about the practical uses of thermography in the > location of embedded devices. At the time, the concept was dismissed as > impractical. I now realize that considering this was the early 90's, > thermography was very primative as compared to present technology. True. Present capability is exponentially more effective than even a few years ago. > I have noticed that there are TSCM teams advertising their adoption of > what they call TESA, There should be only ONE company advertising TESA as that is a trademarked term to that company who developed the technology. > and it seems that they rely heavily on this thermography as a core > technology in the location of hidden devices. In a search of the > messages in this group, I have uncovered no refernce to this > technology, and likewise a cursory review of the TSCM.COM site nets > nothing. The information is proprietary to the company who developed TESA (Murray & Associates, www.spybusters.com) but you did the right thing in checking the archives before posting your question and I commend you for that. > From my understanding the US Marshall service works with the Raytheon > units for the location of devices once a signal is detected. What understanding is that? If what you describe is all there is to it, they're using the equipment improperly. > Before I drop ~$10k on a unit for research purposes, I would like to > hear what others might have tried. $10K in USD is way below the entry point for this technology for TSCM. Any research you perform on a $10K unit will mean little. You need a high end professional device with low noise and a cooled sensor. As the information is proprietary to Kevin Murray who developed it, and it works (I have seen it), I will not say any more. Kevin monitors this list and it is up to him whether or not he wishes to comment on his firm's capabilities and practices. That's not my option. I recommend if you have only $10K you keep it in your pocket. You can buy a lot of thermal imagers for that price, but they won't do the job. The manufacturers don't know what job you want to do so they're really of little help, and their job is to sell equipment. Or contract Kevin Murray to train you on the principles of TESA. That would be the best use of your money. Steve with no thermal imagers to sell ******************************************************************* Steve Uhrig, SWS Security, Maryland (USA) Mfrs of electronic surveillance equip mailto:Steve@s... website http://www.swssec.com tel +1+410-879-4035, fax +1+410-836-1190 "In God we trust, all others we monitor" ******************************************************************* 8719 From: Kevin D. Murray Date: Tue May 25, 2004 0:05pm Subject: Re: The Practical uses of Thermography inTSCM Hi, The good news is that you don't have to spend $10k to research. Companies are willing to loan or rent IR units to qualified buyers for evaluation. It took me 18 months to do my research. It was an excellent learning experience. In the end, I purchased a Merlin-Mid from Indigo. Since then, I have purchased another one of their units for our overseas work. You will enjoy the research part. Lots of surprises. Personally, I don't see any one piece of detection technology as being "core." We use a layered approach in our testing with some technologies overlapping in effectiveness with others. Small point... TESAŽ is our registered trademark for Thermal Emissions Spectrum Analysis rather than a generic term like TSCM. Always feel to contact me directly if I can help. Kevin Kevin D. Murray - CPP, CFE, BCFE Murray Associates Eavesdropping Detection and Counterespionage Consultants to Business & Government http://www.spybusters.com On May 25, 2004, at 12:07 AM, redelst wrote: > Some years ago I had done some training with the folks at Audiotel > in the UK, and had asked about the practical uses of thermography in > the location of embedded devices. At the time, the concept was > dismissed as impractical. I now realize that considering this was > the early 90's, thermography was very primative as compared to > present technology. > > I have noticed that there are TSCM teams advertising their adoption > of what they call TESA, and it seems that they rely heavily on this > thermography as a core technology in the location of hidden devices. > In a search of the messages in this group, I have uncovered no > refernce to this technology, and likewise a cursory review of the > TSCM.COM site nets nothing. > >> From my understanding the US Marshall service works with the > Raytheon units for the location of devices once a signal is > detected. This sounds like a responsible approach for the use of > such a device. Does anyone have any comments on the use of > Thermography as a tool for TSCM? Would anyone be able to assign a > value to such a tool? > > Before I drop ~$10k on a unit for research purposes, I would like to > hear what others might have tried. > > > > > > > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > =================================================== TSKS > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > 8720 From: David Colton Date: Tue May 25, 2004 0:08pm Subject: Re: Please help, I habe been Bugged >By default all new members of the group are moderated; however, once >someone demonstrates that they have something constructive to offer, and >can behave like a gentleman I upgrade their posting privileges so that they >can openly post and benefit the group. >-jma Any way to ask you to reconsider? :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Manjunath Shastry To: tscm-l@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:53 PM Subject: [TSCM-L] Please help, I habe been Bugged Greetings, I am a Scientist based in India, my former employer HCL Technologies, is spying all my activities round the clock and I am also experiencing pain, numbness, shock, irritation and such sensations randomly in all parts of my Body. This suspect this is done using electronic gadgets, though I have been able to find none. How best can I stop this, would highly appreciate your help. Regards, Manjunath. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TSCM-L/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 8721 From: kondrak Date: Tue May 25, 2004 5:21pm Subject: Re: Please help, I habe been Bugged Must be the Americans getting even with you for stealing their jobs. At 23:53 5/24/2004, you wrote: >Greetings, > > >I am a Scientist based in India, my former employer >HCL Technologies, is spying all my activities round >the clock and I am also experiencing pain, numbness, >shock, irritation and such sensations randomly in all >parts of my Body. This suspect this is done using >electronic gadgets, though I have been able to find >none. > > >How best can I stop this, would highly appreciate your >help. > > > >Regards, >Manjunath. > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. >http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > > > > >======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. >=================================================== TSKS >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > 8722 From: Craig Meldrum Date: Tue May 25, 2004 5:56pm Subject: Postings to TSCM Can I make a small request of people posting to this forum, that you do not include the previous messages that you are responding to in your postings other than where it is necessary to comment on a particular statement. I don't know if anyone else is bothered by this but I find I spend half my time wading through repetitive text. Thanks Craig =============================== Craig Meldrum, Managing Director Communications Security Ltd PO Box 8314, Symonds St Auckland, New Zealand Ph: 64-9-3093386 Fax: 64-9-3021148 =============================== 8723 From: mark de Boer Date: Tue May 25, 2004 1:03pm Subject: wlan access point detection Does anyone on this list use(or used) a WLAN analyser such as the Fluke "waverunner" for detecting or viewing unauthorised access points on a client's network. We detect WLAN almost every time we do a sweep so a little help from Fluke would perhaps make it easier. M.de Boer RRB security Archimedestraat 12 Dordrecht Netherlands http://www.flukenetworks.com/us/LAN/Handheld+Testers/WaveRunner/Overview.htm --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 8724 From: David Alexander Date: Wed May 26, 2004 1:30am Subject: RE: wlan access point detection Mark I do audits of this type. I have a Compaq ipaq PDA with an 802.11 card and the Kismet/netstumbler/airsnort/wepcrack tools for performing Wi-Fi audits. You could use a laptop, but the PDA is easier for covert detection if the client doesn't want their staff to know, just leave it in your pocket and walk round. Wi-Fi access points are not hard to spot, once you know there is one. Hope this helps David Alexander Dbi Consulting Ltd Stoneleigh Park Mews Stoneleigh Abbey Kenilworth Warwickshire CV8 2DB Office : 01926 515515 Mobile: 07836 332576 Email : David.Alexander@d... Have you visited our website? http://www.dbiconsulting.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: mark de Boer [mailto:vincent2707662000@y...] Sent: 25 May 2004 19:04 To: tscm-l@yahoogroups.com Subject: [TSCM-L] wlan access point detection Does anyone on this list use(or used) a WLAN analyser such as the Fluke "waverunner" for detecting or viewing unauthorised access points on a client's network. We detect WLAN almost every time we do a sweep so a little help from Fluke would perhaps make it easier. M.de Boer RRB security Archimedestraat 12 Dordrecht Netherlands http://www.flukenetworks.com/us/LAN/Handheld+Testers/WaveRunner/Overview.htm --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS Yahoo! Groups Links 8725 From: William Knowles Date: Wed May 26, 2004 2:28am Subject: Area 51 hackers dig up trouble http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05/25/area_51_hackers/ By Kevin Poulsen SecurityFocus 25th May 2004 To the Area 51 buffs who journey to the Nevada desert in the hopes of catching a glimpse of unexplained lights in the sky or to bask in the mythic allure of the region, 58-year-old Chuck Clark is almost as much a part of the local color as the Black Mailbox. A resident of tiny Rachel, Nevada - 100 miles north of Las Vegas along the Extraterrestrial Highway - the amateur astronomer and author has spent years keeping an eye on the spot the government calls the "operating location near Groom Lake, Nevada." He's said to be a frequent presence at the Little A'Le'Inn, where you can purchase post cards and tee shirts, enjoy an "Alien Burger," and walk out with a copy of Clark's "Area 51 & S-4 Handbook" to guide you on your journey into the desert. But this self-appointed military watchdog is harder to find these days: messages left for him at the Inn go unreturned, and his media appearances have dried up like Groom Lake itself. "I think he's really not as motivated to talk to the media anymore as he used to be," says friend and fellow base-watcher Joerg Arnu. The reason: it turns out the truth really was out there, and the government didn't appreciate Clark digging it up. Clark didn't find the Roswell craft or an alien autopsy room - in fact, while officially shrouded in secrecy, the 50-year-old base is generally believed to be dedicated to the terrestrial mission of testing classified aircraft. "The U2 spy plane, the SR-71, the F-117A stealth fighter, all were flight-tested out of the Groom Lake facility," says Steven Aftergood, director of the Federation of American Scientists' Project on Government Secrecy. The myth of Area 51 memorialized in films, T.V. shows and novels is a function of the secrecy that surrounds it. "It is a concrete manifestation of official secrecy at its most intense, and that invites a mixture of paranoia and speculative fantasy that has become ingrained in popular culture," says Aftergood. Even without aliens, the facility has its secrets, and last year while roaming the desert outside the Groom Lake base Clark stumbled upon one of them: an electronic device packed in a rugged case and buried in the dirt. Marked "US Government Property," the device turned out to be a wireless transmitter, connected by an underground cable to a sensor buried nearby next to one of the unpaved roads that vein the public land surrounding the base. Together, the units act as a surveillance system, warning someone - somewhere - whenever a vehicle drives down that stretch of road. Similar devices had been spotted in the area in the early 90s, but they were crude and bulky, stashed in the bushes and easily spotted. They were later withdrawn. The new road sensors are more clandestine, given away only by a slender antenna poking up through the dirt. "They're very, very hard to find, because there's just this little wire, like a blade of grass," says Arnu. Sniffing Out Surveillance Arnu, a Las Vegas software engineer, has shared Clark's preoccupation with the Groom Lake base since 1999, when he made a trip to the area to see what all the fuss was about. "I thought, okay, I'll give it a try, see what's out there... A couple of days turned into a couple of weeks and before I knew it I started developing a website about Area 51," says Arnu. So when Clark found the new generation of road sensor, Arnu drove out to help investigate further. The pair found that, at close range, they could use a handheld frequency counter to pick up the wireless signals given off by the devices as a car passes. Over the following month and half, Clark and Arnu engaged in a kind of geocaching game with the Men in Black, systematically sniffing out the road sensors with the frequency counter, exhuming them, and opening them up. They discovered that each device was coded with three-digit identifier that could be read off an internal dial, allowing Arnu to make a list that correlated each unit's ID number with its GPS coordinates, creating a virtual map of a portion of the surveillance network surrounding the Groom Lake facility. Some of the sensors were miles away from the base. "We dug up about 30 or 40 of them on various access roads leading to the base on public land," Arnu says, insisting that he and Clark always carefully reburied each unit after logging it, and even tested it with the frequency counter to make sure it was still working before moving on to the next one. Based on their survey, Clark and Arnu have estimated that there are between 75 and 100 sensors, on public land used by hikers and photographers in addition to curiosity seekers. "I think it is absolutely inappropriate," says Arnu. "You have to understand that people going out there - not everybody is interested in Area 51...They track these tourists on public land going about their hobby." When they'd gathered sufficient evidence that the Air Force was bugging the desert, Arnu and Clark revealed the road sensors on Arnu's website, Dreamland Resort, a forum and information site for Area 51 aficionados and the "Official Home Page of the world-famous Little A'Le'Inn." The reaction from the government was immediate, according to Arnu: the road sensors were fitted with a new feature aimed at better eluding detection. Now the transmitters would wait a minute or two before broadcasting an alarm, so that desert wardrivers are out of range before the transmission takes place - at least, using relatively insensitive detection equipment like a frequency counter. Undeterred by the innovation, in June of last year Clark led a news crew from Las Vegas' KLAS television station into the desert and showed them some of the road sensors. The following week, according to the station's report, FBI and Air Force agents raided Clark's trailer home in Rachel, and carted off his computer, photographs and records. The next day, Arnu got a call at work from the FBI. "They demanded that I speak with them the very same day," he says. The Case of the Missing Sensor The investigation sparked something of a backlash in Nevada. The Las Vegas Review Journal editorialized against the FBI's tactics. In the Las Vegas Mercury, George Knapp, the newsman who filmed the KLAS segment, asked how far the government should be allowed to go in protecting the secret base. "If you or I accidentally kick one of these hidden transmitters, should the feds be able to seize our Macintosh and photos of Aunt Betty?" Arnu describes the probe as an intimidation tactic. "It didn't lead anywhere," he says. "It was basically a dead-end from the beginning because we didn't break any law... We dug [the sensors] up without damaging them or destroying them." But court documents unsealed earlier this year reveal that there was an unsolved mystery lurking around Groom Lake. It seems that a month prior to the raid, one of the road sensors went missing - vanished, like an abductee pulled into a flying saucer. The government didn't charge anyone with stealing US property, but last December it charged Clark with a single count of interfering with a communications system used for the national defense. On March 12th, 2003 Clark allegedly obstructed, hindered and delayed "a signal from a mini intrusion device" located outside "the Nevada Test and Training Range" -- a reference to the government land that encompasses the Groom Lake site. "He removed one," says Natalie Collins, a spokesperson for the U.S. Attorney's Office in Las Vegas. "It says that there, so it's fine for me to confirm that." In a deal quietly reached with prosecutors last January, Clark agreed to "either locate and return the sensor removed on March 12, 2003 or pay restitution to the United States Air Force to replace the missing sensor." In exchange, the government agreed to suspend proceedings against Clark and to place him on a kind of probation called "pretrial diversion": if Clark goes a year without interfering with any of the road sensors, and doesn't otherwise break the law, the government will drop the felony charge. Clark's phone number is unlisted, and he didn't respond to repeated messages left for him at the Little A'Le'Inn over the course of several months, and inquiries passed through Arnu. His attorney also declined to return repeated phone calls on the case. Arnu says his friend never told him about a missing sensor, or his agreement to return it. "I refuse to believe that Chuck would be stupid enough to remove one," says Arnu. "I know... that he agreed to lay low for a year." Clark's adventures near the most famously secret patch of real estate in the world appear to have pulled him beneath the very cloak of secrecy he poked and scratched at for so many years. He has, in a sense, become a part of Area 51. *==============================================================* "Communications without intelligence is noise; Intelligence without communications is irrelevant." Gen Alfred. M. Gray, USMC ---------------------------------------------------------------- C4I.org - Computer Security, & Intelligence - http://www.c4i.org ================================================================ Help C4I.org with a donation: http://www.c4i.org/contribute.html *==============================================================* 8726 From: kondrak Date: Wed May 26, 2004 6:12am Subject: Fwd: SpyBot >FYI: > >There is a new SpyBot Search and Destroy out with close 14,000 >definitions.......Get it! NO EXCUSES! NO SPYWARE! http://www.safer-networking.org/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 8727 From: contranl Date: Wed May 26, 2004 0:09pm Subject: UK police to use Bluetooth to contact their databases. . UK police will use Bluetooth to contact their national police computers... there new hightech digital communicators (Tetra) dont have enough facilities (to small display/no keyboard)to do that. They probably will wear an extra device (PDA ?) that connects to there digital handheld radio (using a wireless bluetooth link) O2(the network operator)say they have developed a secure Bluetooth protocol for that. In a while there will be 1000's of policemen on the street walking around with 1000's of direct acces point's to the national police computers.... I shurely hope there "sucure bluetooth" is of high quality ! Source: http://networks.silicon.com/mobile/0,39024665,39120886,00.htm While you are there you might as well click on the link at the bottom "British police say new radios hurt there brains" To get a taste of the ongoing controversy on the "possible health effects" of there new digital radio network. Tetrascanner www.tetrascanner.com 8728 From: Ocean Group Date: Wed May 26, 2004 1:25pm Subject: RE: wlan access point detection Mark I would be inclined to agree with David. Just buy a wi-fi enabled (include 5 ghz if required) pda and use open source tools found on the net. Look at the psion portables for instance, there is a huge range to chose from. Cost wise you'll save, fluke gear is premium, and the widely used software like netstumbler will update itself when new systems appear. Plus there are huge support forums if you're unsure about something. If someone else is paying then why not buy some fluke gear...! However, their add-ons are pricey, and as people will tell you, they're prices are fixed so you won't find cut price gear, and never new kit second hand. Regards Ois ********************************* Message: 4 Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:30:19 +0100 From: "David Alexander" Subject: RE: wlan access point detection Mark I do audits of this type. I have a Compaq ipaq PDA with an 802.11 card and the Kismet/netstumbler/airsnort/wepcrack tools for performing Wi-Fi audits. You could use a laptop, but the PDA is easier for covert detection if the client doesn't want their staff to know, just leave it in your pocket and walk round. Wi-Fi access points are not hard to spot, once you know there is one. Hope this helps David Alexander Dbi Consulting Ltd Stoneleigh Park Mews Stoneleigh Abbey Kenilworth Warwickshire CV8 2DB Office : 01926 515515 Mobile: 07836 332576 Email : David.Alexander@d... Have you visited our website? http://www.dbiconsulting.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: mark de Boer [mailto:vincent2707662000@y...] Sent: 25 May 2004 19:04 To: tscm-l@yahoogroups.com Subject: [TSCM-L] wlan access point detection Does anyone on this list use(or used) a WLAN analyser such as the Fluke "waverunner" for detecting or viewing unauthorised access points on a client's network. We detect WLAN almost every time we do a sweep so a little help from Fluke would perhaps make it easier. M.de Boer RRB security Archimedestraat 12 Dordrecht Netherlands http://www.flukenetworks.com/us/LAN/Handheld+Testers/WaveRunner/Overview.htm --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.690 / Virus Database: 451 - Release Date: 22/05/2004 8729 From: kondrak Date: Wed May 26, 2004 5:03pm Subject: IP here, IP there, IP everywhere.....BPL Stealth AHH, the ulterior motive for BPL now Surfaces.... They want to bombard you with garbage advertising every second of the day.... Ad people should be rounded up and buried alive...I know there was no reason they'd undertake a billion dollar project like this to send to Internet to some farmer in Pigslop, ND...its to further invade your space with advertising.....the cat is out of the bag now, now theres a reason for EVERYONE to HATE It! We were just handed a key to victory in our fight.....we can exploit the people's worst fears, advertisement and SURVEILLANCE as well....reading all those RFID tags on stuff you bought from Walmart. Tracking your every move....reading your credit cards, etc. The sheeple will blow a gasket once this is out.... This is MAJOR...now we need to exploit it to the max....WE CAN KILL BPL WITH THIS! >NEW KID ON THE BLOCK >HAS A WHOLE BAG OF NEW SPARKS FOR THE COMMUTER > > >IP Everywhere(tm) have patent applied technology whereby > broadband internet will be available on moving vehicles. > >This technology promises to change the face of advertising >on vehicles and how commuters travel to and from work. > >San Francisco, CA > >IP Everywhere(tm) have patent applied technology whereby >broadband internet will be available on moving vehicles such >as trains, trams, trolleys, metros, subways, undergrounds, >trams and monorails. The technology feeds the internet to the >vehicle using the electrical power lines that power the vehicle. > >This next generation of Broadband over Power Line (BPL) >technology (also known as Power Line Communications - PLC) >will change the way the traveler uses their time on any moving >vehicle. With satellite being slow and relatively expensive, this >generation of BPL promises to bring a breath of fresh air to the >public transport industry and create brand new revenue streams >for ailing sectors needing a boost. > >The company is at the Proof of Concept stage and is looking >for partners to pilot this brand new technology. They are currently >talking to giants in the BPL arena such as Ameren, Current >Technologies and Cinergy and also partners like San Francisco`s >own BART along with PG&E. > >IP Everywhere is also in negotiations with utilities and companies >in South America, Germany, Japan and the United Kingdom >regarding their technologies. > >Broadband internet to vehicles is only one of the irons in their fire. >There are new exciting concepts underway and under patent >application that will literally change the face of advertising on a >moving vehicle. > >For more information http://www.ip-everywhere.com > >Source: http://www.hometoys.com/news.php4?section=view&id=13649435 > > > > > > > > >The Private Wireless Forum for Mobile Communication Professionals >Private Radio & Wireless Industry News, Views, Information & More >________________________________________________________ > >Have you checked out the growing collection of PWF Links, Files, and >graphics on the Forums' website recently? > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PrivateWirelessForum >________________________________________________________ > > >Each PWF member is solely responsible for the content of any post >they make to the Forum. Please review and proof-read your comments >BEFORE you send them, try to keep them as professional as possible >and, remember to TRIM (edit/cut/delete) any unnecessary portions of >all messages you choose to reply to. You never know just WHO might >be reading them or WHERE they may end up! Thanks for your help. > >________________________________________________________ > >If you know of other wireless professionals who might enjoy the PWF, >why not invite them to join us via the following subscription links: > >via email: PrivateWirelessForum-subscribe@yahoogroups.com >via the web: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PrivateWirelessForum >________________________________________________________ > >What have YOU done today to help support, protect, and preserve >the PRIVATE Radio and Wireless community? > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > 8730 From: contranl Date: Wed May 26, 2004 10:58pm Subject: Video camera detection , including temporarely switched off !! . I like to ask the members of this group what they think of this: Automatic video-camera-detection ( including those switched off !!! ) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Why is it that most video-camera-detectors use such small antennas ? Antennas i've seen are : Telescope Rubberduckie (helical) Ferrite + coil I could imagine that a longer antenna would be better matched to the very long wavelenghths of the line-sync-frequencies wich are: NTSC 15,734 Khz PAL,PAL-N,SECAM 15,625 Khz PAL-M 15,750 Khz That's a very long wavelength (hundreds of meters !)...so: A telescope would be hundreds of times to short to be effective A rubber duckie should be even worse The Ferrite+coil is a little different..i assume this is supposed to pick op the electromagnetical part of the radiation...it might be in resonance with the frequency but still not very effective (you can make everything resonate to any frequency...including a nail...but that does'nt mean it is very effective).. Every radio-signal consists of 2 components: 1) The electrical component 2) The magnetical component Wich component is the strongest may depend on many things Most antennas are made to pick up the electrical waves...some are made to pick up the magnetical part...this is mostly done when long antennas are unpractical or if you specificly want to pick up only the magnetic part. -------------------------------------------------------- Question 1) What about the line-sync-radiation from video cameras... mostly electrical or mostly magnetic ? (wich one would have a longer detection range ?) -------------------------------------------------------- I could imagine 2 reasons for using very small antennas to sweep for videocameras: A) It is unpractical to have long antennas. B) You want to avoid the reception of (false) outside signals. Problem 1) You will have to sweep the whole wall...inch by inch... since detection range would be no more then max 25 inch(55cm) at most Problem 2) You can't detect switched off camera's this way you would need other expensive equipment ...like an NLJ wich has other problems. Solution ? ---------- Antenna: Why not take a longwire antenna and hang it on the walls ?....lets say you make 2 big turns, one at 1 ,5 meter high...the next turn at 2,5 meters high...like that you would have an antenna much better matched to the VLF frequency...in fact you are sitting in a big coil..wich will pick up both electrical and magnetical components. Only problem would be that you now pick might up more (false) radiation from outside. A solution to that would be to have a reference antenna outside and distract the received signals from those inside...wich will leave you with only inside signals. This you could do by counter-phase them (similar to a device sold by MFJ-electronics wich does exactly the opposite) Since we are only looking for only maximum 3 different frequencies chances of steady interference from outside are very small...also these frequencies are not used a lot since a receiver could easely have interference from any video equipment. So an outside sig substraction might not be neccesary. Outside signals might also have fading (slow increase and decrease of fieldstrength) a signal from a video camera would not have fading, Also an outside signal from a broadcast station would not have a video modulation. Receiver: Many VLF receivers that i have seen dont have a real front-end (the first stage in a receiver) They mainly consist of a roughly tuned circuit that lacks sensitivity and selectivity. Many of them can only do or NTSC or PAL or they "overlap" As a result they have no good detection range and might pick up other (false) signals too. So why not use a "real" receiver and scan the 3 VLF frequencies... using the above antenna ? I could use my Gps-tracker for that (wich is basically a software controlled scanner). With some clever software i could eliminate outside interference (if any) Outside signals would: Have slow fading Have a modulation that does not look like video The additional use of the "flashing lamp trick" would completely eliminate any false signals. "My" receiver could easely generate a flashing signal and at the same time look for any modulation coming back. (since it already has all the neccesary hard and software to do that) DETECTING SWITCHED OFF VIDEO CAMERAS -------------------------------------------------------------------- How to detect a switched-off camera ?.... using the above technique...impossible ? Not all roads lead to Rome ! A switched off camera will eventually be switched on again ! Unless the peeper did get "air" of you sniffing around... In real life most video cameras will be left on and a recorder would be switched on and off using a motion-detector or timer...that will save tape also. Anyway my software controlled receiver would record all signal levels at the 3 frequencies during a certain time.... and display them as a "level against time graphic". So the trick would be to do long time recording of levels. A suddenly switched on camera would show up as a sudden peak. A timed camera would show up always at the same time. A light sensor activated camera would show up as soon as you turn on the light. A PIR-detector controlled camera would go off and on again if you leave the room and come back after a few minutes. A transmission from outside will show up as non video-modulated and might have fading If you want to do long-time level recording ... let's say 24 hours you could leave the receiver in the corner of the room...the antenna would stay on the walls. To avoid that the "peeper" sees that funny wire hanging on the wall you may use a wire with the same color as the background, a "peeper" would probably not see it at the opposite wall anyway. You could even "act" like somebody is having a "birthhday party" and disguise the antenna as a "garland" kind of decoration... that might also keep nosy workers in an office asking about the wires :) :) So in practice you would enter the office hang up your decoration... connect it to the receiver and look and listen for a video-signal, if you find something you may switch on the flashing lamp trick to make absolut shure. (the lamp modulator / demodulator is already built in the receiver) If positive you would then sweep the wall in the oldfashioned way to pinpoint the camera. If you do'nt find anything...then there is either nothing... or the camera is switched off, in that case you leave your receiver on and leave the building to take a nap..... Next day you come back and inspect the recorded graphic. It will probably do "fibercams" as wel...unless they have used a very long fiber-wire exceeding the detection-range...wich might very well be at least 4~10 meters ? The above procedure has not been actually tested yet..and only lives in my brain,therefore i might have overseen something. Question 2 -------------------------------------------------------------------- What do you think of this...is this a: GOOD or BAD idea and why is that so ? -------------------------------------------------------------------- PS) The same technique could be used to detect non active: Gsm-phones / bugs / devices ...wich are sleeping most of the time to avoid detection and to save on batteries. Such a Gsm-level-recorder would be the only way to find it while not active (only receiving) An updating signal (necessary in Gsm networks) wich forces the phone to transmit shortly..might take a long time to occur(up to 24 hrs ! ) An updating signal will usually occur around the same time (network initiated) An updating signal will occur suddenly at a steady level An outside signal (from the next room) might have varying levels caused by movement/position of the person using it... An "idle" Gsm signal (when there is no speech ...from am empty room) will sound like a steady repeating data burst ...usually mic sensitivity in gsm phones is very low...any distant noise will not result in a modulation...a real conversation will sound like a non steady and varying datastream. A signal from a Gsm-phone can be easely detected at up to 200 meters using an AM detector and some high Q filters (like those used in Gsm phones)...the antenna would be a simple Gsm-antenna in the middle of the room. You may adjust the sensitivity to minimal to avoid false alarms. The microprocessor will count the typical Gsm pulses (217 Hz) thus further limiting the false alarms to 99.99 %. An active GSM-phone could be detected in less then 1 second...as soon as you switch on the detector you will hear the typical buzzzzz. This procedure will also work to detect any Gsm devices in a car (often used in combination with Gps-receivers to transmit the position, very usefull as a bug too since it has unlimited range. In the UK and many other countries you can track a Gsm-phone for less then 0,20 $ ...just hide a Gsm-phone in the car and you can see wherever it goes ...you do'nt even need Gps ! (allthough position accuracy is not as accurate as Gps but good enough for statistical/rough purposes) It will also discover Gsm cameras: (modified picture taking models or realtime video types) Gsm backed-up alarm systems also included Thanks in advance for your response Tetrascanner www.tetrascanner.com 8731 From: frost_bitten_ca Date: Wed May 26, 2004 7:11am Subject: rent a stalker Obama admits he dislikes his most loyal follower May 21, 2004 BY DAVE MCKINNEY AND SCOTT FORNEK Staff Reporters SPRINGFIELD -- For the past 10 days, U.S. Senate candidate Barack Obama hasn't been able to go to the bathroom or talk to his wife on his cell phone without having a camera-toting political gofer from his Republican rival filming a few feet away ... http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-sen21.html 8732 From: Manjunath Shastry Date: Wed May 26, 2004 8:05am Subject: Re: Please help, I habe been Bugged Thank you for the reply. pls find a few answers to your questions. you appreciate your help in any way. --- Chad Margita wrote: > Manjunath: > > There are several issues here that must each be > addressed before you > should proceed down this path. Are you absolutely > sure the attack isn't pharmaceutical in nature? I don 't think any chemicals are being used. Are you sure the symptoms > aren't the result of a > diagnosable disease? Yes, I am sure that the symptoms aren 't a result of diagonsable disease. It would be a shame to pay for > an expensive sweep, > only to find nothing, and missed the real threat > entirely. When did these > symptoms start? I have been experiencing this for the past three months Why do think it's your former > employer? I am a Scientist and to exploit my Research capabilities, these things are being done by my former emmployer HCL Technologies. Is there a pattern > to the symptoms? Yes, I can typically feel the sensations in the same places of my Body I apologize for the next question > but I must, as a > professional ask it; Are you possibly suffering from > a mental or emotional > breakdown that may be causing the symptoms? No Please > describe, in as much > detail as possible, the symptoms, and any pattern in > their occurrence. Involuntary contraction of muscles, pin prick sensation, Pain in the lower feet and in the ears. When > did these symptoms first appear? On what do you > base your opinion that the > attack is electronic in nature? All my activities are being spied round the clock, I have been harassed on streets with the help of unsavoury characters. The police have been bribed corruptly using the power and influence. What do you think > the purpose or reason for > the attack would be? What result would the > perpetrator be looking to > achieve? > Commercial Motive. > Chad Margita > Off Duty Security > 18301 Eight Mile Rd > Suite 214 > Eastpointe Mi 48021 USA > Phone 586-774-1675 > Fax 586-774-1635 > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Manjunath Shastry" > > To: > Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:53 PM > Subject: [TSCM-L] Please help, I habe been Bugged > > > > Greetings, > > > > > > I am a Scientist based in India, my former > employer > > HCL Technologies, is spying all my activities > round > > the clock and I am also experiencing pain, > numbness, > > shock, irritation and such sensations randomly in > all > > parts of my Body. This suspect this is done using > > electronic gadgets, though I have been able to > find > > none. > > > > > > How best can I stop this, would highly appreciate > your > > help. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > Manjunath. > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > ======================================================== > > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > > "In a multitude of counselors there is > strength" > > > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list > visit: > > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts > acquire speed, > > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a > warning. > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > > > =================================================== > TSKS > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > TSCM-L-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ 8733 From: G P Date: Wed May 26, 2004 8:55pm Subject: Re: wlan access point detection The Fluke WaveRunner is nice, albeit pricey - you could accomplish the same goal with a Zaurus SL-5600 and Kismet; my personal setup is an SL-5600 with an Ambicom CF Wifi (WL1100C-CF), you can pick one up from Best Buy or CompUSA for ~$50, no drivers needed - support on the SL-5600 is already built-in. There are a few solutions out there that are more suited for finding rogue AP's in the same price range as the WaveRunner, check out the Yellow Jacket system: http://www.bvsystems.com/ It has a handheld stinger-style antenna that can be used for DF, and their software also has a triangulation addon module. Also check out http://www.airmagnet.com Both are sub-$5k and IMHO a better setup than Fluke, your mileage may vary. mark de Boer wrote: Does anyone on this list use(or used) a WLAN analyser such as the Fluke "waverunner" for detecting or viewing unauthorised access points on a client's network. We detect WLAN almost every time we do a sweep so a little help from Fluke would perhaps make it easier. M.de Boer RRB security Archimedestraat 12 Dordrecht Netherlands http://www.flukenetworks.com/us/LAN/Handheld+Testers/WaveRunner/Overview.htm --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS Yahoo! Groups Links --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 8734 From: Richard Donovan Date: Wed May 26, 2004 8:23am Subject: Area 51 Hackers Map Buried Surveillance Network Area 51 Hackers Map Buried Surveillance Network There's a story on SecurityFocus about a pair of Area 51 'hackers' who discovered a buried network of wireless motion sensors on the public land surrounding the "operating location near Groom Lake, Nevada." Using a frequency counter and a GPS receiver, they tracked down and logged 30 - 40 of the sensors, before the FBI and Air Force raided one of them, and questioned the other. Now one of the guys has been charged with a federal crime for allegedly removing one of the devices that was protecting a base that doesn't officially exist. http://www.securityfocus.com/news/8768 8735 From: javier_vc1 Date: Tue May 25, 2004 11:09pm Subject: Re: wlan access point detection Have you ever tried the most powerful hacking tool for fingerprinting wifi? http://www.kismetwireless.net/ Greetings. Javier Villanueva Chief Hacking Officer Mexico --- In TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com, mark de Boer wrote: > Does anyone on this list use(or used) a WLAN analyser such as the Fluke "waverunner" for detecting or viewing unauthorised access points on a client's network. > We detect WLAN almost every time we do a sweep so a little help from Fluke would perhaps make it easier. > > > M.de Boer > RRB security > Archimedestraat 12 > Dordrecht Netherlands > > > http://www.flukenetworks.com/us/LAN/Handheld+Testers/WaveRunner/Overvi ew.htm > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger - Communicate instantly..."Ping" your friends today! Download Messenger Now > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 8736 From: Patrick Ryals Date: Wed May 26, 2004 1:18pm Subject: Video Surveillance Software Any recommendations on video surveillance software? I've been looking at a number of different pc based surveillance software. And no one software seems to stand out. "Video Site Monitor 4 Webcam System" from www.fgeng.com seems worth the time and energy to evaluate. I'm basically looking for something to run four cameras maybe eight, motion detection, decent frame rate, stored locally and post to a website that could be logged into and viewed from wherever. None of the ones I've found seem to be clearly marketed - meaning you'd need to spend some time with each to figure out even the most basic info. Such as frame rate, how many cameras etc. The one mentioned above seems to be the only one with an expansive support site. Please respond privately. Sincerely, Patrick Ryals ceo@n... Modus Operandi CA PI#22920 8737 From: Hawkspirit Date: Thu May 27, 2004 0:29pm Subject: Cell Phone Tracking Cell phone tracking http://www.svbxlabs.com/pages/projects/cell/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 8738 From: Steve Uhrig Date: Thu May 27, 2004 2:42pm Subject: Re: Video camera detection , including temporarely switched off !! Once upon a midnight dreary, contranl pondered, weak and weary: > Why is it that most video-camera-detectors use such small antennas ? > Antennas i've seen are : > Telescope > Rubberduckie (helical) > Ferrite + coil 1)The thing needs to be practical 2)When it's phony it doesn't need to work, just look good. > What about the line-sync-radiation from video cameras... Back when cameras had vidicon or other type of image sensor TUBES (valves), they had a deflection yoke or magnetic plates and the equivalent of a flyback transformer giving a high voltage, high current pulse at 15-whatever kilocycles. That was something which, theoretically, might have been able to be sensed. Modern receivers using CRTs (mot of them) have the same thing in reverse, with large deflection coils over the neck of the CRT and a flyback transformer giving a big kick. You can try your experiments on a receiver and probably see similar results as to what you would with a TUBE camera. For all practical purposes, there are no more tube cameras. Solid state cameras work at very low signal levels. Not much radiated. Not much to sniff. A typical camera may draw 50 milliwatts at 12 volts which is regulated internally to 8 volts. That's 400 milliwatts. If you guesstimate 5% of that energy is radiating at the raster scan frequency, you'd have 20 milliwatts. Into essentially no antenna, you'd have a lot of negative antenna gain, say -30 dB at the raster scan frequency and this probably is being very generous. This would result in an effective radiated power of 20 microwatts if I did the math in my head correctly. 20 microwatts will be hard enough to detect with a resonant antenna, and as you pointed out, you won't have anywhere near a resonant antenna at these freqs. I believe the entire idea is one which sounds interesting in theory but when you apply the laws of physics it will not work in reality. > Problem 1) > You will have to sweep the whole wall...inch by inch... since > detection range would be no more then max 25 inch(55cm) at most How did you calculate this detection range? It seems extremely optimistic to me. Go over my math above and please point out if I made any errors. I didn't extrapolate path loss and receive antenna gain either, which you'd have to do to estimate a detection range. > Problem 2) > You can't detect switched off camera's this way you would need other > expensive equipment ...like an NLJ wich has other problems. A NLJ in competent hands will do the job. > Why not take a longwire antenna and hang it on the walls ?....lets say > you make 2 big turns, one at 1 ,5 meter high...the next turn at 2,5 > meters high...like that you would have an antenna much better matched > to the VLF frequency...in fact you are sitting in a big coil..wich > will pick up both electrical and magnetical components. For this effort you could do a physical search for the camera, its power supply, signal leads away from the camera, RF transmitted from the camera if wireiess and if it is, you get more of a chance to find the transmitter, transmitter power supply and transmit antenna. The longwire idea would not be practical. Submarines tow very very long wires as low frequency antennas. I won't mention the length but it's impressive. -------------- Keep thinking. We all learn from the discussion. Steve ******************************************************************* Steve Uhrig, SWS Security, Maryland (USA) Mfrs of electronic surveillance equip mailto:Steve@s... website http://www.swssec.com tel +1+410-879-4035, fax +1+410-836-1190 "In God we trust, all others we monitor" ******************************************************************* 8739 From: J. Coote Date: Thu May 27, 2004 7:57pm Subject: RE: Video camera detection , including temporarely switched off !! It could be that some of the electrically short antennas seen on camera detectors are "active whip" antennas- A plain telescoping or rubber helical antenna at VLF without an RF preamp/matching/filters would be a P. O. S. (Piece Of Stuff)but a good active whip or loop can be really hot. I've used active whips for 10-520 kHz reception. The active whip is a meter or so of antenna (though could be less), single-stage preamp and some RF filtering and matching. I think I have seen one tape recorder or camera detector with a small loop antenna. Loops (with a preamp) are another method of receiving VLF-LF-MF. Reception- Some receivers won't go below 100 Khz, or if they do, the specs are "numb". A VLF upconvertor may be used between the active whip or loop and receiver on a higher frequency. Example: a signal on 187 Khz would up-convert to 10.187, the dial freq in your receiver. I think Kaiser has VLF UCs and detection/reception aids. I doubt that most modern cameras (CCD) will give off much signal on 15.7 Khz, so it might be rewarding to try a loop or whip, preamp, good VLF receiver around different camera types. Hmmm... same could be said for tape recorders, I wonder how many still use a 100-Khz (or so) bias? Jay Los Angeles -----Original Message----- From: contranl [mailto:contranl@y...] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:59 PM To: TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com Subject: [TSCM-L] Video camera detection , including temporarely switched off !! . I like to ask the members of this group what they think of this: Automatic video-camera-detection ( including those switched off !!! ) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Why is it that most video-camera-detectors use such small antennas ? Antennas i've seen are : Telescope Rubberduckie (helical) Ferrite + coil I could imagine that a longer antenna would be better matched to the very long wavelenghths of the line-sync-frequencies wich are: NTSC 15,734 Khz PAL,PAL-N,SECAM 15,625 Khz PAL-M 15,750 Khz That's a very long wavelength (hundreds of meters !)...so: A telescope would be hundreds of times to short to be effective A rubber duckie should be even worse The Ferrite+coil is a little different..i assume this is supposed to pick op the electromagnetical part of the radiation...it might be in resonance with the frequency but still not very effective (you can make everything resonate to any frequency...including a nail...but that does'nt mean it is very effective).. Every radio-signal consists of 2 components: 1) The electrical component 2) The magnetical component Wich component is the strongest may depend on many things Most antennas are made to pick up the electrical waves...some are made to pick up the magnetical part...this is mostly done when long antennas are unpractical or if you specificly want to pick up only the magnetic part. -------------------------------------------------------- Question 1) What about the line-sync-radiation from video cameras... mostly electrical or mostly magnetic ? (wich one would have a longer detection range ?) -------------------------------------------------------- I could imagine 2 reasons for using very small antennas to sweep for videocameras: A) It is unpractical to have long antennas. B) You want to avoid the reception of (false) outside signals. Problem 1) You will have to sweep the whole wall...inch by inch... since detection range would be no more then max 25 inch(55cm) at most Problem 2) You can't detect switched off camera's this way you would need other expensive equipment ...like an NLJ wich has other problems. Solution ? ---------- Antenna: Why not take a longwire antenna and hang it on the walls ?....lets say you make 2 big turns, one at 1 ,5 meter high...the next turn at 2,5 meters high...like that you would have an antenna much better matched to the VLF frequency...in fact you are sitting in a big coil..wich will pick up both electrical and magnetical components. Only problem would be that you now pick might up more (false) radiation from outside. A solution to that would be to have a reference antenna outside and distract the received signals from those inside...wich will leave you with only inside signals. This you could do by counter-phase them (similar to a device sold by MFJ-electronics wich does exactly the opposite) Since we are only looking for only maximum 3 different frequencies chances of steady interference from outside are very small...also these frequencies are not used a lot since a receiver could easely have interference from any video equipment. So an outside sig substraction might not be neccesary. Outside signals might also have fading (slow increase and decrease of fieldstrength) a signal from a video camera would not have fading, Also an outside signal from a broadcast station would not have a video modulation. Receiver: Many VLF receivers that i have seen dont have a real front-end (the first stage in a receiver) They mainly consist of a roughly tuned circuit that lacks sensitivity and selectivity. Many of them can only do or NTSC or PAL or they "overlap" As a result they have no good detection range and might pick up other (false) signals too. So why not use a "real" receiver and scan the 3 VLF frequencies... using the above antenna ? I could use my Gps-tracker for that (wich is basically a software controlled scanner). With some clever software i could eliminate outside interference (if any) Outside signals would: Have slow fading Have a modulation that does not look like video The additional use of the "flashing lamp trick" would completely eliminate any false signals. "My" receiver could easely generate a flashing signal and at the same time look for any modulation coming back. (since it already has all the neccesary hard and software to do that) DETECTING SWITCHED OFF VIDEO CAMERAS -------------------------------------------------------------------- How to detect a switched-off camera ?.... using the above technique...impossible ? Not all roads lead to Rome ! A switched off camera will eventually be switched on again ! Unless the peeper did get "air" of you sniffing around... In real life most video cameras will be left on and a recorder would be switched on and off using a motion-detector or timer...that will save tape also. Anyway my software controlled receiver would record all signal levels at the 3 frequencies during a certain time.... and display them as a "level against time graphic". So the trick would be to do long time recording of levels. A suddenly switched on camera would show up as a sudden peak. A timed camera would show up always at the same time. A light sensor activated camera would show up as soon as you turn on the light. A PIR-detector controlled camera would go off and on again if you leave the room and come back after a few minutes. A transmission from outside will show up as non video-modulated and might have fading If you want to do long-time level recording ... let's say 24 hours you could leave the receiver in the corner of the room...the antenna would stay on the walls. To avoid that the "peeper" sees that funny wire hanging on the wall you may use a wire with the same color as the background, a "peeper" would probably not see it at the opposite wall anyway. You could even "act" like somebody is having a "birthhday party" and disguise the antenna as a "garland" kind of decoration... that might also keep nosy workers in an office asking about the wires :) :) So in practice you would enter the office hang up your decoration... connect it to the receiver and look and listen for a video-signal, if you find something you may switch on the flashing lamp trick to make absolut shure. (the lamp modulator / demodulator is already built in the receiver) If positive you would then sweep the wall in the oldfashioned way to pinpoint the camera. If you do'nt find anything...then there is either nothing... or the camera is switched off, in that case you leave your receiver on and leave the building to take a nap..... Next day you come back and inspect the recorded graphic. It will probably do "fibercams" as wel...unless they have used a very long fiber-wire exceeding the detection-range...wich might very well be at least 4~10 meters ? The above procedure has not been actually tested yet..and only lives in my brain,therefore i might have overseen something. Question 2 -------------------------------------------------------------------- What do you think of this...is this a: GOOD or BAD idea and why is that so ? -------------------------------------------------------------------- PS) The same technique could be used to detect non active: Gsm-phones / bugs / devices ...wich are sleeping most of the time to avoid detection and to save on batteries. Such a Gsm-level-recorder would be the only way to find it while not active (only receiving) An updating signal (necessary in Gsm networks) wich forces the phone to transmit shortly..might take a long time to occur(up to 24 hrs ! ) An updating signal will usually occur around the same time (network initiated) An updating signal will occur suddenly at a steady level An outside signal (from the next room) might have varying levels caused by movement/position of the person using it... An "idle" Gsm signal (when there is no speech ...from am empty room) will sound like a steady repeating data burst ...usually mic sensitivity in gsm phones is very low...any distant noise will not result in a modulation...a real conversation will sound like a non steady and varying datastream. A signal from a Gsm-phone can be easely detected at up to 200 meters using an AM detector and some high Q filters (like those used in Gsm phones)...the antenna would be a simple Gsm-antenna in the middle of the room. You may adjust the sensitivity to minimal to avoid false alarms. The microprocessor will count the typical Gsm pulses (217 Hz) thus further limiting the false alarms to 99.99 %. An active GSM-phone could be detected in less then 1 second...as soon as you switch on the detector you will hear the typical buzzzzz. This procedure will also work to detect any Gsm devices in a car (often used in combination with Gps-receivers to transmit the position, very usefull as a bug too since it has unlimited range. In the UK and many other countries you can track a Gsm-phone for less then 0,20 $ ...just hide a Gsm-phone in the car and you can see wherever it goes ...you do'nt even need Gps ! (allthough position accuracy is not as accurate as Gps but good enough for statistical/rough purposes) It will also discover Gsm cameras: (modified picture taking models or realtime video types) Gsm backed-up alarm systems also included Thanks in advance for your response Tetrascanner www.tetrascanner.com ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS Yahoo! Groups Links 8740 From: contranl Date: Thu May 27, 2004 10:12pm Subject: Cellphone tracking + Gsm "spyhones" overview . Thanks for the link, (http://www.svbxlabs.com/pages/projects/cell/) I can't figure it out..after reading it 10 times. What is described is maybe only 2 procent of what would be needed to make it work. (receivers,antennas,antenna-steering/switching etc) Looks like he is trying to re-invent the wheel ( wich i also do sometimes :) that wheel would be called " Time Of Arrival" That principle wont work with only 2 antennas since you would be left with 2 ore more possible directions you need 4 antennas to get 1 clear direction. For countersurveillance purposes useless and not needed if you would try to find a hidden cellphone/gsm in use as a bug in some office. A direction finding device would be overkill. You simply take a wide band detector (AM) and locate the source by observing the field strength while sweeping the walls..very basic ! To improve things you may want to add a filter tuned to the cellphone (uplink) freq bands...that's all. You could build such a detector (in this case for Gsm) yourself using the following lowcost components: A piece of wire (antenna) Amplifier (Mar-6 Minicircuits) Gsm filters (uplink freqs 900/1800 mhz) Amplifier (Mar-6 Minicircuits) 1 Diode (Am-detector) 1 Capacitor(10 pF) Audio amplifier (LM 386) Speaker You could add a signalstrength meter using an LM3915 and 10 Led's That's all..total cost 40 US $ Different approach: get a ready built "RF-sniffer" and add the filters ...there must be a thousend of them on the net. A simple specific gsm detector-circuit with a simple (global)direction-indication can be found here: http://www.elektor-electronics.co.uk/miniproj/details/010128.htm It will take you only a few hours to build: To improve it ...add an rf amplifier and a triband gsm-filter (dielectric filter 900/1800/1900 mhz...uplink) The direction finding part is not very effective/usefull, so you could build just half of the circuit. -------- Gsm-bugs have surfaced about a year or 3 ago..they where first made by some hobbyists but are now coming out of Taiwan in huge quantities... They are being sold for "whatever price they can get" ....500~5000 US $ Gsm-bugs are modified phones that have an added microprocessor inside (Pic) wich takes care of picking up the phone when called. Some Gsm-bugs are standard phones with no modification at all ! you can find a setting in the menu that will make it pick up by itself ! Other ones are "Flashed" and have completly new system-software with built in spyphone functions. By far most popular is the trick to "forget" such a phone in someone's office..you would then call it up to hear what they say about you after you left...ofcourse such a phone won't ring or display anything...simply because the display and ringer have been disabled...so it looks like being switched off Other models now have a "freezing" display ..they look like they are switched on and in standby mode...when called they pick up but show no changes because you will see a fake display. Latest models have caller ID ...it will only go in "spymode" when a certain number calls in...if anyone else calls it will behave normal. I have seen a new sample (Taiwan) with built in recording (remote controlled) they dont even look like phones anymore..they are now small square boxes with no keypad they may run directly of the mains voltage...very usefull to plant in someones house. Newest of the newest are those that can send you a picture too ! these are still big but that will change soon. Next year you will see small Gsm-bugs that can send realtime motion video ! (A Gsm-phone can use a voice channel...but also has a data- channel available...this data-channel can transmit more information as a voice voice channel can...therefore video over gsm will be on the data channel...a data channel will sound and look the same as an audio-channel since they are both digital to detection equipment) One disadvantage of Gsm bugs is that the audioquality is very poor (they currently all on the audiochannel) This is caused by the codec (the digitising of the audio) wich causes loss of audio quality...some have 2 microphones to create a very strong directional effect (pointed at the speakers mouth) Most Gsm "spyphone" manufacturers seem to use the original microphone circuit already available in the phone and do'nt bother to give it some added amplification..wich would improve the audio. Another disadvantage would be that if such a bug would be found the "caller" might be tracable by looking up the phone companies records...to avoid that...a caller might use another Gsm-phone to call in (Gsm-phones are available at every corner of the street without any ID ),ofcourse that would decrease audio-quality even more since it would then be digitized twice. Some people now use Gsm-jammers to disable Gsm-bugs...wich is illegal...like that you will not know that you are being bugged, they also disable your own phone (and the neighbours !) A Gsm-detector will be better it will alert you (loud or silent)and they are not illegal. I am amazed that there are only 2 Gsm-detectors available specificly aimed at countersurveillance : 1) http://www.audiotel-int.com/signetmob.html 2) www.tetrascanner.com......that's me !...mine can also do "sleeping" ones ! to do that you need to record all signals over a period of time...many Gsm-bugs will be sleeping most of the time to save on batteries. Other Gsm-detectors are aimed at restaurants to stop callers annoying the public..they are not portable and don't have a fieldstrength indication...you can't hear what you are receiving either, without that they are not very usefull for countersurveillance (finding them)purposes. Scanners are to slow and have difficulties to stop on the fast pulses and the wide bandwidth...also the phone might switch channels..so you might "loose" the signal all the time A spectrum analyzer will work fine...if you have on...use it. buying one only for this purpose would be overkill... A not so technical person might be better of with a simple to use Gsm-detector..wich will fit in your pocket ! Whatever you use you will have to use something that can do 2 or sometimes 3 frequency-bands at the same (real)time these bands are 900/1800/1900 Mhz each band is at least 30 mhz wide Gsm is by far the most used cellphone standard in the world...it's available in every country ...except the US and Japan where there are stil a lot of CDMA/IDEN networks...slowly Gsm is taking over there too. Interesting enough you do'nt see any CDMA cellphones advertised that have been converted to bugs...allthough that would be easy to do...and therefore they will exist. i have never heard a CDMA-cellphone-signal...simply because the do'nt exist in Europe. Do'nt worry...finding an active Gsm bug is a piece of cake since it emits very recogniseable pulses at high enough power levels. allthough more difficult when it's "sleeping" (it might take 24 hours before it will transmit a only 2 seconds lasting "updating signal" ) --------- LINKS --------- Look here to see some Gsm-phone bugs (resellers): The 1st one uses an interesting description of what they are used for: http://www.endoacustica.com/english/spy_telephone.htm http://www.gsmfactory.com/spyphone/# http://www.spy-labs.com/spyphone.htm -------- The best one is gone..do'nt know what happened they offered a do it yourself kit that consisted of a small preprogrammed microprocessor (Pic)...and a complete instruction on CD on how to build that in. They wholesaled for only 65 British pounds. they where here: http://www.spyphonedirect.com -------- The search for Gsm Spyphones/Gsmbugs/Ghostphones has reached such high levels...that the searchterm (keyword) is now being used by many websites just to get visitors even if they do'nt have them at all ! ...they have a very high "James Bond" level and are probably many times bought for "showing off" purposes only. -------- A far east manufacturer (Taiwan) Including online user-manuals for the gsm spyphones ! Lot's of other goodies novelties/oldies/gadgets/.. They say the have a portable Gsm-monitoring unit too! a very hot item !.....i could sell 100's of them if they would be less then 20.000 US $..beware,beware,beware,beware !!!!!! 9 out 10 "companies" that offer gsm-monitors...offer them only to upgrade there "appearance" but can't deliver ! (do'nt forget that Gsm-uses encryption) Some even ask 15.000 US $ just to give a demonstration ! (prepaid that is !) http://www.unitone.com.tw --------- Gsm video cameras ( stills and real time motion) http://www.laipac.com/gsm-camera.htm http://galarm.bizland.com/store/page20.html http://www.nokia.com/nokia/0,,4654,00.html http://tiny-url.com/2g http://www.edgarsson.co.uk/dialupcctv.htm http://www.remote-vision.com.sg/products/product.html# http://www.crimereduction.gov.uk/cctv26.htm --------- All gsm networks in the world to see if you're in a Gsm-area http://www.gsmcoverage.co.uk/ --------- All standard Gsm frequency bands (mobile tx frequencies ) GSM900 880 ~ 915 MHz GSM1800 1710 ~ 1785 MHz GSM1900 1850 - 1910 MHz Newer models can do all bands ---------- A little bonus that you might know already..the Cellgun (video) they found some last year ... just a few blocks from here. http://cellular.co.za/phones/gunphone/gun-phone.htm Well that's it for today...i could go on for hours... Greetings Tetrascanner www.tetrascanner.com 8741 From: David Alexander Date: Fri May 28, 2004 4:19am Subject: RE: Video camera detection , including temporarely switched off !! I've never been in favour of wireless TV surveillance. What's to stop a criminal using a receiver to view the images and effectively 'case the joint' without ever stepping foot inside, or being able to identify the positions of security guards ? David Alexander Dbi Consulting Ltd Stoneleigh Park Mews Stoneleigh Abbey Kenilworth Warwickshire CV8 2DB Office : 01926 515515 Mobile: 07836 332576 Email : David.Alexander@d... Have you visited our website? http://www.dbiconsulting.co.uk -----Original Message----- From: J. Coote [mailto:TSCM@j...] Sent: 28 May 2004 01:58 To: contranl; TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [TSCM-L] Video camera detection , including temporarely switched off !! It could be that some of the electrically short antennas seen on camera detectors are "active whip" antennas- A plain telescoping or rubber helical antenna at VLF without an RF preamp/matching/filters would be a P. O. S. (Piece Of Stuff)but a good active whip or loop can be really hot. I've used active whips for 10-520 kHz reception. The active whip is a meter or so of antenna (though could be less), single-stage preamp and some RF filtering and matching. I think I have seen one tape recorder or camera detector with a small loop antenna. Loops (with a preamp) are another method of receiving VLF-LF-MF. Reception- Some receivers won't go below 100 Khz, or if they do, the specs are "numb". A VLF upconvertor may be used between the active whip or loop and receiver on a higher frequency. Example: a signal on 187 Khz would up-convert to 10.187, the dial freq in your receiver. I think Kaiser has VLF UCs and detection/reception aids. I doubt that most modern cameras (CCD) will give off much signal on 15.7 Khz, so it might be rewarding to try a loop or whip, preamp, good VLF receiver around different camera types. Hmmm... same could be said for tape recorders, I wonder how many still use a 100-Khz (or so) bias? Jay Los Angeles -----Original Message----- From: contranl [mailto:contranl@y...] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 8:59 PM To: TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com Subject: [TSCM-L] Video camera detection , including temporarely switched off !! . I like to ask the members of this group what they think of this: Automatic video-camera-detection ( including those switched off !!! ) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Why is it that most video-camera-detectors use such small antennas ? Antennas i've seen are : Telescope Rubberduckie (helical) Ferrite + coil I could imagine that a longer antenna would be better matched to the very long wavelenghths of the line-sync-frequencies wich are: NTSC 15,734 Khz PAL,PAL-N,SECAM 15,625 Khz PAL-M 15,750 Khz That's a very long wavelength (hundreds of meters !)...so: A telescope would be hundreds of times to short to be effective A rubber duckie should be even worse The Ferrite+coil is a little different..i assume this is supposed to pick op the electromagnetical part of the radiation...it might be in resonance with the frequency but still not very effective (you can make everything resonate to any frequency...including a nail...but that does'nt mean it is very effective).. Every radio-signal consists of 2 components: 1) The electrical component 2) The magnetical component Wich component is the strongest may depend on many things Most antennas are made to pick up the electrical waves...some are made to pick up the magnetical part...this is mostly done when long antennas are unpractical or if you specificly want to pick up only the magnetic part. -------------------------------------------------------- Question 1) What about the line-sync-radiation from video cameras... mostly electrical or mostly magnetic ? (wich one would have a longer detection range ?) -------------------------------------------------------- I could imagine 2 reasons for using very small antennas to sweep for videocameras: A) It is unpractical to have long antennas. B) You want to avoid the reception of (false) outside signals. Problem 1) You will have to sweep the whole wall...inch by inch... since detection range would be no more then max 25 inch(55cm) at most Problem 2) You can't detect switched off camera's this way you would need other expensive equipment ...like an NLJ wich has other problems. Solution ? ---------- Antenna: Why not take a longwire antenna and hang it on the walls ?....lets say you make 2 big turns, one at 1 ,5 meter high...the next turn at 2,5 meters high...like that you would have an antenna much better matched to the VLF frequency...in fact you are sitting in a big coil..wich will pick up both electrical and magnetical components. Only problem would be that you now pick might up more (false) radiation from outside. A solution to that would be to have a reference antenna outside and distract the received signals from those inside...wich will leave you with only inside signals. This you could do by counter-phase them (similar to a device sold by MFJ-electronics wich does exactly the opposite) Since we are only looking for only maximum 3 different frequencies chances of steady interference from outside are very small...also these frequencies are not used a lot since a receiver could easely have interference from any video equipment. So an outside sig substraction might not be neccesary. Outside signals might also have fading (slow increase and decrease of fieldstrength) a signal from a video camera would not have fading, Also an outside signal from a broadcast station would not have a video modulation. Receiver: Many VLF receivers that i have seen dont have a real front-end (the first stage in a receiver) They mainly consist of a roughly tuned circuit that lacks sensitivity and selectivity. Many of them can only do or NTSC or PAL or they "overlap" As a result they have no good detection range and might pick up other (false) signals too. So why not use a "real" receiver and scan the 3 VLF frequencies... using the above antenna ? I could use my Gps-tracker for that (wich is basically a software controlled scanner). With some clever software i could eliminate outside interference (if any) Outside signals would: Have slow fading Have a modulation that does not look like video The additional use of the "flashing lamp trick" would completely eliminate any false signals. "My" receiver could easely generate a flashing signal and at the same time look for any modulation coming back. (since it already has all the neccesary hard and software to do that) DETECTING SWITCHED OFF VIDEO CAMERAS -------------------------------------------------------------------- How to detect a switched-off camera ?.... using the above technique...impossible ? Not all roads lead to Rome ! A switched off camera will eventually be switched on again ! Unless the peeper did get "air" of you sniffing around... In real life most video cameras will be left on and a recorder would be switched on and off using a motion-detector or timer...that will save tape also. Anyway my software controlled receiver would record all signal levels at the 3 frequencies during a certain time.... and display them as a "level against time graphic". So the trick would be to do long time recording of levels. A suddenly switched on camera would show up as a sudden peak. A timed camera would show up always at the same time. A light sensor activated camera would show up as soon as you turn on the light. A PIR-detector controlled camera would go off and on again if you leave the room and come back after a few minutes. A transmission from outside will show up as non video-modulated and might have fading If you want to do long-time level recording ... let's say 24 hours you could leave the receiver in the corner of the room...the antenna would stay on the walls. To avoid that the "peeper" sees that funny wire hanging on the wall you may use a wire with the same color as the background, a "peeper" would probably not see it at the opposite wall anyway. You could even "act" like somebody is having a "birthhday party" and disguise the antenna as a "garland" kind of decoration... that might also keep nosy workers in an office asking about the wires :) :) So in practice you would enter the office hang up your decoration... connect it to the receiver and look and listen for a video-signal, if you find something you may switch on the flashing lamp trick to make absolut shure. (the lamp modulator / demodulator is already built in the receiver) If positive you would then sweep the wall in the oldfashioned way to pinpoint the camera. If you do'nt find anything...then there is either nothing... or the camera is switched off, in that case you leave your receiver on and leave the building to take a nap..... Next day you come back and inspect the recorded graphic. It will probably do "fibercams" as wel...unless they have used a very long fiber-wire exceeding the detection-range...wich might very well be at least 4~10 meters ? The above procedure has not been actually tested yet..and only lives in my brain,therefore i might have overseen something. Question 2 -------------------------------------------------------------------- What do you think of this...is this a: GOOD or BAD idea and why is that so ? -------------------------------------------------------------------- PS) The same technique could be used to detect non active: Gsm-phones / bugs / devices ...wich are sleeping most of the time to avoid detection and to save on batteries. Such a Gsm-level-recorder would be the only way to find it while not active (only receiving) An updating signal (necessary in Gsm networks) wich forces the phone to transmit shortly..might take a long time to occur(up to 24 hrs ! ) An updating signal will usually occur around the same time (network initiated) An updating signal will occur suddenly at a steady level An outside signal (from the next room) might have varying levels caused by movement/position of the person using it... An "idle" Gsm signal (when there is no speech ...from am empty room) will sound like a steady repeating data burst ...usually mic sensitivity in gsm phones is very low...any distant noise will not result in a modulation...a real conversation will sound like a non steady and varying datastream. A signal from a Gsm-phone can be easely detected at up to 200 meters using an AM detector and some high Q filters (like those used in Gsm phones)...the antenna would be a simple Gsm-antenna in the middle of the room. You may adjust the sensitivity to minimal to avoid false alarms. The microprocessor will count the typical Gsm pulses (217 Hz) thus further limiting the false alarms to 99.99 %. An active GSM-phone could be detected in less then 1 second...as soon as you switch on the detector you will hear the typical buzzzzz. This procedure will also work to detect any Gsm devices in a car (often used in combination with Gps-receivers to transmit the position, very usefull as a bug too since it has unlimited range. In the UK and many other countries you can track a Gsm-phone for less then 0,20 $ ...just hide a Gsm-phone in the car and you can see wherever it goes ...you do'nt even need Gps ! (allthough position accuracy is not as accurate as Gps but good enough for statistical/rough purposes) It will also discover Gsm cameras: (modified picture taking models or realtime video types) Gsm backed-up alarm systems also included Thanks in advance for your response Tetrascanner www.tetrascanner.com ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS Yahoo! Groups Links ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS Yahoo! Groups Links 8742 From: Ocean Group Date: Fri May 28, 2004 6:41am Subject: RE: Aviation Following on from the aviation topic a couple of weeks ago I spotted this: *************************** www.iee.org Mobile phone use in aircraft - is it really a safety issue? 27 May 2004 Isn't it curious that the airline industry insists that using mobile phones in airborne aircraft poses a potential safety risk due to interference with the navigation systems, yet cabin crews have no way of checking for sure whether there are phones still left switched on in their aircraft? It's increasingly common for phones to be left on, either in checked-in luggage or a passenger's possession, often unintentionally. It's not unusual to begin a descent and hear someone's phone go off with a text message alert, or for a phone to ring while in mid-air. More confusion occurs with the use of phones and PDAs (personal digital assistants) which have a special 'flight mode' that is supposed to disable the wireless function so that user's can use other facilities on their gadget; some users don't even switch to this mode until they power up their phone on-board while in mid-air, which means that they are using their equipment in wireless mode for some period of time anyway. As if that wasn't enough to confuse the travelling public, there's more to come, especially with the use of wireless internet on-board. There is also the European Commission funded project, WirelessCabin (www.wirelesscabin.com), which will start trials in August on an Airbus A340-600 aircraft. The project defines system architecture for wireless access (UMTS, W-LAN and Bluetooth) in an aircraft cabin. For this, the project has developed a service integrator that maps the cabin services on a satellite bearer to be connected to the terrestrial infrastructure. The goal of the project is to allow passengers to use their own mobile phones on-board. It uses a concept called collectively mobile heterogeneous network (CMHN), which allows several mobile users with different access standards on the network. The aircraft cabin represents such a CMHN supporting several radio access networks. Airbus has already conducted pre-trials under this project, and finished the system specification. Some issues were encountered which are expected to be ironed out in the main trials - for example, if the aircraft was above a certain altitude there were instances where the network was unable to log on, or connect, to the ground network. After the trials, the project expects to conclude by creating opportunities for new services for satellite operators, mobile service providers and airlines. As we come closer to having several different wireless technologies on board, it becomes clearer that 'safety' was probably just a smokescreen for the real, commercial issue. Airlines and operators have so far been unable to work out how best to profit from the passenger's desire to be connected while in the air, so have banned the use of phones. But with projects like WirelessCabin, which will provide them with the technology as well as enable satisfactory billing systems to emerge, it surely won't be too long before airlines and service operators will be encouraging us to use phones on board. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.690 / Virus Database: 451 - Release Date: 22/05/2004 8743 From: agenceadi Date: Fri May 28, 2004 6:05am Subject: re: spy phone gsm many thanks for this message i m very carrefull with gsm spyphone because many listennings here in france are realised with those phone . all the bugs are forbidden here and you can t buy one so a lot of people take there phone to listen what they want in a room . you place the phone in the room and you call it , of course the phone don t ring but hang up and of course you can disable the screen so that you think the gsm is off. i use a scout digital optoelectronic to inspecte a room but you only see the frequency if the phone is active of course .... the best way is the jammer . david agence delta in paris 8744 From: Hawkspirit Date: Fri May 28, 2004 11:51am Subject: Sweep needed Residential sweep needed in Hannibal, Mo contact me directly Roger Tolces www.bugsweeps.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 8745 From: Michael Puchol Date: Fri May 28, 2004 0:16pm Subject: HP 8559A SA Manual needed Hi all, I have been donated (in exchange for some work) a rather heavy HP 8559A (with the 853A display unit), which lacks any form of manuals. I'd be interested in aquiring a copy of the manuals which may be available (wink wink, Steve), will pay any costs incurred. This unit appears to have been used in a place where heavy smoking took place, as it's all sticky and brown with tar. Best regards, Mike