From: Matt Paulsen Date: Tue Aug 13, 2002 6:59pm Subject: RE: Re: GPS wristwatch Correction, Steve is right about GlobalTrak, this is not GlobalTrak. Thanks, Matt Paulsen President/CEO Orange Networks LLC P: 503.892.8786 F: 503.892.8794 -----Original Message----- From: Michael Puchol [mailto:mpuchol@s...] Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 4:00 PM To: TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] Re: GPS wristwatch Hi there, Steve is right about this - I read the original Wired article, and then the one linked in his post - well worth a read. Dozens of people gave this scammer thousands of dollars for distributorship rights on devices that never existed, or even have a probability to exist in a few years time, given the current state of technology (mainly regarding batteries). It is funny however that about 10 minutes ago I finished lunch, while watching the news on TV, where this device was mentioned - the short clip talked about the device, showed technical drawings, a few screenshots of a website, and lots of children running around (without any trace of the bracelet of course). Not once a was the device physically show - the most likely cause being that it doesn't even exist. It was all about how this device was going to help with lost children, abductions, etc. - and they even mentioned a price! Around $450 each. Unbelievable. All the best, Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Uhrig" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 2:55 PM Subject: [TSCM-L] Re: GPS wristwatch > > Don't get excited about this. > > This is a reseller of the Digital Angel/Mobiltrak vaporware scam > which already has made its rounds in this country, scammed hundreds > of potential investors, and been debunked repeatedly in the media by > a number of persons including me. ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 5974 From: Matt Paulsen Date: Tue Aug 13, 2002 7:07pm Subject: RE: Re: GPS wristwatch While I agree that the effectiveness of the tool may not live up to expectations and does open up a nice avenue of litigation which will be good news for many a law firm in the US, there's enough research that shows that deterrent efforts towards increasing security significantly reduces the probability of an incident. This device is only that, a deterrent, nothing more, nothing less. The level of effectiveness of the deterrence in this case has yet to be proven. Thanks, Matt Paulsen President/CEO Orange Networks LLC P: 503.892.8786 F: 503.892.8794 -----Original Message----- From: Greg H. Walker, Attorney At Law [mailto:gwalker@r...] Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 3:46 PM To: TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com Subject: [TSCM-L] Re: GPS wristwatch Even if the company is legitimate (I know nothing about the company) it seems that once the child was taken inside of a building, in a heavy wooded area, etc. that the line of sight with the 3 or so required satellites would be lost. Another problem I visualize is battery life, especially for transmitting. Stop and think, what percentage of the time does your cellphone not work due to inability to connect with the system because you are in a dead spot, or in a building, etc.. Who would want to gamble a life on this technology? I will be the first to admit that I have the electronic skills of a smushed squirrel, however, in my, going on 5 years, use of locational systems (primarily Teletrac, an RF system) placement of antennas and battery life have always been a problem. Investigators I know that have tried GPS systems have either sold them for pennies on the dollar or simply thrown them away. My only direct experience with GPS has been when someone threw one of my units down into a wooded ravine, we changed from street names to longitude and latitude and went to the local hunting and fishing store and bought a decent GPS unit and never could get it to give us the same location twice -- always way off and I don't mean a block or so, I mean a couple of miles -- finally found the unit the old fashioned way -- hand searching. If I told a client about the GPS wristwatch for a child, or even an adult, I would probably have them sign a multipage disclaimer and release of liabilty. People are going to over trust this type of thing and believe it will work each and every time and it won't and the lawsuits will flow; but in the meantime a little child will have been lost because a parent believed the sales people who tauted that technology can solve all of your problems -- wrong, technology is a tool for the trained, not a cure-all for inattentive parents or caregivers of the elderly or disabled. It would be great and a wonderful aid for LEO, etc. if such a device was extremely reliable and if parents understood it was not a subtitute for good parenting practices -- but the advertisements won't say that it is not a subtitute for good parenting practices and it won't be as dependable under all conditions, especially big city conditions, as people will probably be led to believe. Please understand that this is not an attack or badmouthing of any company, etc. it is merely a comment on my experience and upon the technology in general. GREG -- Greg H. Walker, ARM* Attorney At Law President RisKontroL -- Risk Management, Security Consulting & Investigations Houston, Texas (713) 850-0061 * Associate in Risk Management Designation (Insurance Institute of America's Center For Advanced Risk Management Education) WARNING NOTICE BY GHW: Greg H. Walker's comments are not intended to be and should absolutely not be taken as legal advice. Unless you have entered into a specific written agreement with him for legal services, signed by both you and him, and paid him a retainer in good funds, then he is not your Attorney, does not intend to be your Attorney and you should not act nor refrain from acting based, in whole or in part, on his comments. ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 5975 From: James M. Atkinson Date: Tue Aug 13, 2002 7:01pm Subject: Glossary I am putting together a comprehensive glossary of TSCM terms, phrases, and acronym's used by the TSCM community. This glossary will be made available via my website later this fall. I would ask that list members suggest terms, phrases, and acronym's they feel would be helpful to explain, and I will try to get then into the list. -jma -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The First, The Largest, The Most Popular, and The Most Complete TSCM, Bug Sweep, Spy Hunting, and Counterintelligence Site on the Internet. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- James M. Atkinson Ph: (978) 381-9111 Granite Island GroupFax: 127 Eastern Avenue #291http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008mailto:jmatk@tscm.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat. - Sun Tzu -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5976 From: Steve Uhrig Date: Tue Aug 13, 2002 8:03pm Subject: Re: GPS wristwatch On 13 Aug 2002 at 17:46, Greg H. Walker, Attorney At Law wrote: > Even if the company is legitimate (I know nothing about the company) > it seems that once the child was taken inside of a building, in a > heavy wooded area, etc. that the line of sight with the 3 or so > required satellites would be lost. Yes. 4 satellites actually, if you want altitude. And, in a professional system you want to be locked on to more than 4 birds, so if one drops out momentarily, one of the others can fill in and keep a steady flow of information. I have a GPS engine on the workbench I use for precision timing, with a magmount antenna outside the window on top of a window air conditioner. It is a Rockwell 12 channel parallel receiver in the engine, and it usually has 6 and sometimes 7 birds. > Another problem I visualize is battery life, especially for > transmitting. Yes. When you're advertising vaporware, you can make any claims you want. Frank Jones and CCS do it all the time, as do 99% of the spy shops. Make that 100% of the spy shops. > I will be the first to admit that I have the electronic skills of a > smushed squirrel, however, in my, going on 5 years, use of locational > systems (primarily Teletrac, an RF system) placement of antennas and > battery life have always been a problem. You should do a white paper on these issues. It would be helpful to many, from the standpoint of an intelligent and experienced but non- technoweenie user. > Investigators I know that have tried GPS systems have either sold them > for pennies on the dollar or simply thrown them away. I have been preaching this for years, since the early systems came out and we had a government contract to evaluate the things. Everyone argues with me in public. In private, they relate the same things you did. GPS COVERT TRACKING SYSTEMS ARE A WASTE OF MONEY. DO NOT BUY THEM! Yes, I'm shouting. If the things were any good, we'd manufacture them. It's certainly little challenge, just time and packaging standard technology. Now people can argue with you too. I'm going to save your message to forward to people who argue with me, as backup! The things also can be illegal in any and every state the way many of them are described to be used. > If I told a client about the GPS wristwatch for a child, or even an > adult, I would probably have them sign a multipage disclaimer and > release of liabilty. People are going to over trust this type of > thing and believe it will work each and every time and it won't and > the lawsuits will flow; but in the meantime a little child will have > been lost because a parent believed the sales people who tauted that > technology can solve all of your problems -- wrong, technology is a > tool for the trained, not a cure-all for inattentive parents or > caregivers of the elderly or disabled. Since the product does not exist, the above is a non-issue. I've gotten messages from several PIs who were considering investing in these vaporware GPS tracking systems. They were smart enough to do their homework. Others will accept things in blind faith, and lose every penny. Steve ******************************************************************* Steve Uhrig, SWS Security, Maryland (USA) Mfrs of electronic surveillance equip mailto:Steve@s... website http://www.swssec.com tel +1+410-879-4035, fax +1+410-836-1190 "In God we trust, all others we monitor" ******************************************************************* 5977 From: iDEN-i100 Date: Tue Aug 13, 2002 8:36pm Subject: Re: Re: GPS wristwatch Here is the user manual and pictures- https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=182064&native_or_pdf=pdf https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=182059&native_or_pdf=pdf https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=182060&native_or_pdf=pdf https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=182070&native_or_pdf=pdf https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=182058&native_or_pdf=pdf Tscm-l@yahoogroups.com Steve Uhrig wrote: > On 13 Aug 2002 at 17:46, Greg H. Walker, Attorney At Law wrote: > > > Even if the company is legitimate (I know nothing about the company) > > it seems that once the child was taken inside of a building, in a > > heavy wooded area, etc. that the line of sight with the 3 or so > > required satellites would be lost. > > Yes. 4 satellites actually, if you want altitude. And, in a > professional system you want to be locked on to more than 4 birds, so > if one drops out momentarily, one of the others can fill in and keep > a steady flow of information. > > I have a GPS engine on the workbench I use for precision timing, with > a magmount antenna outside the window on top of a window air > conditioner. It is a Rockwell 12 channel parallel receiver in the > engine, and it usually has 6 and sometimes 7 birds. > > > Another problem I visualize is battery life, especially for > > transmitting. > > Yes. > > > > When you're advertising vaporware, you can make any claims you want. > Frank Jones and CCS do it all the time, as do 99% of the spy shops. > Make that 100% of the spy shops. > > > I will be the first to admit that I have the electronic skills of a > > smushed squirrel, however, in my, going on 5 years, use of locational > > systems (primarily Teletrac, an RF system) placement of antennas and > > battery life have always been a problem. > > You should do a white paper on these issues. It would be helpful to > many, from the standpoint of an intelligent and experienced but non- > technoweenie user. > > > Investigators I know that have tried GPS systems have either sold them > > for pennies on the dollar or simply thrown them away. > > I have been preaching this for years, since the early systems came > out and we had a government contract to evaluate the things. > > Everyone argues with me in public. > > In private, they relate the same things you did. > > GPS COVERT TRACKING SYSTEMS ARE A WASTE OF MONEY. DO NOT BUY THEM! > > Yes, I'm shouting. > > If the things were any good, we'd manufacture them. It's certainly > little challenge, just time and packaging standard technology. > > Now people can argue with you too. I'm going to save your message to > forward to people who argue with me, as backup! > > The things also can be illegal in any and every state the way many of > them are described to be used. > > > If I told a client about the GPS wristwatch for a child, or even an > > adult, I would probably have them sign a multipage disclaimer and > > release of liabilty. People are going to over trust this type of > > thing and believe it will work each and every time and it won't and > > the lawsuits will flow; but in the meantime a little child will have > > been lost because a parent believed the sales people who tauted that > > technology can solve all of your problems -- wrong, technology is a > > tool for the trained, not a cure-all for inattentive parents or > > caregivers of the elderly or disabled. > > Since the product does not exist, the above is a non-issue. > > I've gotten messages from several PIs who were considering investing > in these vaporware GPS tracking systems. They were smart enough to do > their homework. Others will accept things in blind faith, and lose > every penny. > > Steve > > ******************************************************************* > Steve Uhrig, SWS Security, Maryland (USA) > Mfrs of electronic surveillance equip > mailto:Steve@s... website http://www.swssec.com > tel +1+410-879-4035, fax +1+410-836-1190 > "In God we trust, all others we monitor" > ******************************************************************* > > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > =================================================== TSKS > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- "NEXTEL1 IT'S NOT JUST NEXTEL" Subscribe to Nextel1: http://www.groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/NEXTEL1 "NEXTEL2 FOR iDEN SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS" Subscribe to Nextel2: http://www.groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/NEXTEL2 "WIRELESS FORUM HOMELAND SECURITY GROUP" The Complete Resource for Wireless Homeland Security. Subscribe to WFHSG: http://www.groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/WFHSG [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 5978 From: Greg H. Walker, Attorney At Law Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 8:11am Subject: Re: GPS wristwatch Matt Paulsen wrote: > > While I agree that the effectiveness of the tool may not live up to expectations and does open up a nice avenue of litigation which will be good news for many a law firm in the US, there's enough research that shows that deterrent efforts towards increasing security significantly reduces the probability of an incident. This device is only that, a deterrent, nothing more, nothing less. The level of effectiveness of the deterrence in this case has yet to be proven. GREG'S REPLY: The proven deterrent effect of security that Matt speaks about is the "hardening of a target", as to a physical site this can be done in a number of ways from better control of ingress/egress systems, to fencing, to CCTV, to CPTED (Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design), to visible guard patrols, etc. For a person this is usually accomplished by Level 2 and upward protective transportation, varying routes of travel to and from the office, changing routines in general, etc., a well trained and experienced executive protection team, and on a lesser and more personal level, the utiization of common sense, attention to surroundings, trust of gut feelings of uneasiness (things children have yet to develop), etc. This is not what a GPS wristwatch, if one even exists, would do -- it does not effectively harden the target in any manner. Why, even assuming that there is such a device, it would have to be readily apparent to the bad actor that the child was wearing such a device -- let's face it, kid's wristwatches come today in a whole range and variety of colors, shapes, sizes, etc. To be even a half way effective deterrent the child would need to wear a flashing neon sign on its forehead saying it was so equipped. If such a system existed it would not be a detterent tool, it would be a recovery tool -- sort of like strapping LoJack to a child (another system that doesn't always perform). If you want to harden a child against kidnap then let's go back to the basics of teaching a child when they get to an appropriate age about talking with strangers, about adults don't ask children to help them find lost kitty cats and puppies or for directions, about there is nothing wrong with running away from a stranger (to hell with political correctness), that the policeman is their friend (gee, Mom and Dad, that means you need to be polite to the policeman that gives you a traffic ticket when little Johnny or little Sally is in the car with you) and finally, parents need to be parents -- when you take you child to the mall or the park, watch them, play with them, don't spend your time on your cellphone, being engrossed in the latest fashions, or watching a softball game or talking with your friend -- good parenting is your most important responsibility. Sorry, don't mean to rant, but like Steve, I just can't stand to see either services or equipment marketed in such a manner as to mislead the consumer on what its real benefit is. GREG -- Greg H. Walker, ARM* Attorney At Law President RisKontroL -- Risk Management, Security Consulting & Investigations Houston, Texas (713) 850-0061 * Associate in Risk Management Designation (Insurance Institute of America's Center For Advanced Risk Management Education) WARNING NOTICE BY GHW: Greg H. Walker's comments are not intended to be and should absolutely not be taken as legal advice. Unless you have entered into a specific written agreement with him for legal services, signed by both you and him, and paid him a retainer in good funds, then he is not your Attorney, does not intend to be your Attorney and you should not act nor refrain from acting based, in whole or in part, on his comments. 5979 From: Steve Uhrig Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 11:26am Subject: Re: GPS wristwatch On 14 Aug 2002 at 8:11, Greg H. Walker, Attorney At Law wrote: To further beat the stillborn horse into the ground, some of our work now involves GPS applications for non-clandestine use. I own a number of GPS systems generally on the high end ($2500 military grade, not $250 consumer, and that's just for the engine, not a complete packaged unit). We have found we can jam the GPS receiver with it using a handheld antenna up through a mobile magmount, fairly easily with little more than a glorified noise generator. Even in strong signal areas, an inexpensive device found in many households will completely and instantly disable a GPS from 6 feet away. The tiniest bit of research and using purpose-built electronics instead of a household item which coincidentally works, can extend this range by an order of magnitude, and that in a chassis about twice the size of a pack of cigarettes. Although we have no interest, the thing could be reproduced in quantity for less than the cost of a decent consumer grade GPS receiver. You can be sure as soon as GPS tracking, or even the concept, is thought to be deployed, the bad guys will routinely use jamming to counteract any potential covert GPS system. The U.S. military currently is dealing with both defensive and offensive jamming and spoofing of GPS signals. I won't discuss this any further. But realize the current GPS system is very fragile. Better is the newer, not consumer priced, satellite locating engines which combine the U.S. GPS and the Russian Glonass (GLObal NAvagational Satellite System) receivers into one device, acquire signals from both, average them and use that. The two systems are vaguely similar in function, but different enough so the vulnerabilities of one do not affect the other. Many professional and even some military applications use a combination of GPS and Glonass. This can be transparent to the user, as both receivers and their associated processing are integrated into one chip. The user sees coordinates, and that's all he cares about, not how they were derived. The next generation of GPS, on the immediate horizon, will have three beam patters/signal strengths. There will be a beam nearly pinpoint, to cover perhaps a few hundred square miles, with a very potent signal which will be stronger than attempts to jam. That would be a battlefield, for example. The middle layer would be a larger circle for the entire conflict area. Civilian and non-mission-critical areas would be the current large footprint, with relatively weak signals. Antenna patterns and even power levels on the GPS III birds could be dynamically reconfigured as the needs of the users changed. There also will be a completely separate set of frequencies for military and nonmilitary use. Selective Availability is a thing of the past, as too much transportation and other critical infrastructure relies on GPS, and differential error correction made it all a joke anyway. We are on the other end of the county from Edgewood Arsenal who transmitted GPS differential signals for a few years on VHF intended for basewide use only, and I could copy the low powered signals 20 miles airline from here perfectly with an outside antenna, and we are in the woods. > This is not what a GPS wristwatch, if one even exists, would do -- it > does not effectively harden the target in any manner. Why, even > assuming that there is such a device, it would have to be readily > apparent to the bad actor that the child was wearing such a device -- > let's face it, kid's wristwatches come today in a whole range and > variety of colors, shapes, sizes, etc. To be even a half way > effective deterrent the child would need to wear a flashing neon sign > on its forehead saying it was so equipped. If such a system existed > it would not be a detterent tool, it would be a recovery tool I have now worked 31 kidnappings. In virtually all, the victims were stripped completely naked within a few minutes at most, wrapped in a blanket, and vehicles changed 2 or 3 times within the first fifteen minutes. Any protective measures on the principal or his vehicle would be rendered ineffective. Kidnappers are not dumb for the most part. In the rare 3 or 4 instances where the principal's vehicle was taken, all visible antennas were cleaned off the vehicle within a minute or two, effectively killing any practical emergency beacon screaming for help or pinging a signal to be DF'ed. Even if the thing were semi-permanently attached like home detention bracelets, all you'd have to do is wrap it in aluminum foil to defeat both the downlink and the uplink. Granted, the pros targeting Latin American oil company executives and politicians may not be grabbing little Heather or Brandon, but the word trickles down. Once the word spreads on these alleged tracking devices, whether they are real or not, even amateur bad guys like noncustodial parents or whatever will adopt these strategies. There have been child-worn GPS tracking systems which did work. They were mounted in a backpack. Totally impractical for the real world, although they got their own share of publicity a while back. Got way off on a tangent here. But it's something we've been working on for a good while ... > Sorry, don't mean to rant, but like Steve, I just can't stand to see > either services or equipment marketed in such a manner as to mislead > the consumer on what its real benefit is. And remember all you kids out there in Radioland, the above paragraph is an *attorney* speaking! ... Steve ******************************************************************* Steve Uhrig, SWS Security, Maryland (USA) Mfrs of electronic surveillance equip mailto:Steve@s... website http://www.swssec.com tel +1+410-879-4035, fax +1+410-836-1190 "In God we trust, all others we monitor" ******************************************************************* 5980 From: Michael Puchol Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 11:20am Subject: Re: Re: GPS wristwatch Hi all, Since this subject has turned into a rather involved thread, I'll add a few points, since I think I have enough experience with GPS systems to add my 0.02? worth. This may also serve as a quick fact sheet to those of you who get asked about covert GPS locators, as Steve rightly pointed out. 1. GPS receivers, and more precisely the antenna they use, need a clear view of the sky. Any obstruction will cause degradation of the received signal, so for example, a GPS receiver will NOT work indoors, in a garage, tunnel, under some gas station's roofs, etc. This also means that the antenna that the receiver uses MUST be placed in a position where the sky is most visible, as any obstruction caused by the vehicle's body will cause signal degradation. Installing an antenna in such position is rather difficult when you want the system to be covert - the obvious place is the car's roof, this providing a rather nice ground plane. It will also be obvious to the target that someone has planted something in his car if it suddenly develops a bump on the roof, hood, etc. So, the next best place to put the device would be inside the car, under the dashboard (assuming it's made of plastic and has no metallic parts around the antenna), or under the luggage compartment's cover (not always present). Both of these locations present problems - one is that under the dashboard/luggage cover, you are killing about 40% of the original 'sky' that the antenna saw, assuming an inclined windscreen - with a van or similar, you're reducing the view to about 50%. Oh, and they don't work with any of these new gold-tinted windscreens a lot of cars are equipped with now - the signal is totally lost - one example is Renaults. This means that in any given situation, your system will have at least 40 to 50% less satellites in view - this could be 100% signal loss if the constellation's position is such that all visible satellites are towards the rear of the vehicle. Remember, GPS satellites are not in geosynchronous orbit, they are LEO(ish), so their position will sometimes be favourable, right above you, and sometimes they can be mostly just above the horizon. So, what have we got left? Not much - the bumpers are even worse than the dashboard, and a lot of them are made of metal, so they're no good. The inside of the vehicle's roof, unless it's made of fiberglass or similar, will shield the satellites' signal, and so will the hood. CONCLUSION: there is no way to reliably install a covert GPS receiver and antenna in a vehicle without the user's knowledge, unless they are really dumb. Any covert installation will suffer from performance degradation, up to the point where urban tracking (where buildings kill off most of the satellites in view) will be impossible. Do NOT believe some internet spy shops that claim they use NASA technology in their antennas, which are so secret they can't even post a picture of them on the web site, and which they claim work even if installed under the vehicle - yes, through all that metal. My father used to say "Always remember the laws of physics when going shopping". 2. GPS receivers use power, and lots of it - an average OEM consumer-grade receiver (which is what you'll get in 99% of tracking systems) draws between 150 and 180mA when in use. This can be reduced with special 'sleep' modes, which turn off the receiver for a period of time, and start it occasionally to refresh the receiver's almanac and clock. In any case, the average consumption is high, making a self-battery powered system not viable but for short periods of time. Drawing power from the car's battery is a risk, as it can deplete it quite fast depending on it's condition, making the target suspicious. CONCLUSION: it's not practical to use self-powered devices, as they need rather large and bulky batteries, or the device needs to be powered from the vehicle's own battery, thus increasing detection risks. 3. There are basically two ways to get the information generated by the GPS to the tracker system, one is by real-time transmission of the coordinates, at set intervals, or sending a compressed message with various positions, and the other is to log the GPS positions to a buffer memory, which can later be read and downloaded. Each of these configurations has advantages and disadvantages. We will look at each in turn. a) Real-time transmission. This system employs a communications device, which can be conventional PMR radio, cellular telephone, trunked radio systems, and even satellite. The advantages of this are real-time tracking capability, where you can follow the target as it moves, with all the associated benefits, no need to make physical contact with the target's vehicle again to download GPS position logs, capability to interact with the vehicle (for example, you could inmobilise the target's vehicle at a convenient location). The disadvantages are that if the vehicle is not within the range of the communication system (for example, out of cell coverage), you will NOT be able to receive the vehicle's position. In some cases, this can be a complete no-no for a GPS tracking system, where coverage is marginal with all but satellite communications (very expensive). Another disadvantage is that it makes the system active, and so easier to find even by untrained personnel with a simple "bug detector". Careful transmitter design and choice of system can reduce this possibility, but it must be considered a risk factor, and taken into account when evaluating the target's technical capabilities. Also, an antenna must be installed for this system to work, and as with GPS but on the transmitting side, the more unobstructed view the antenna has, the better it will perform. Thus, the more hidden the antenna is, the more we will reduce the availability of the tracking system - with satellite systems we will need to place the antenna in a good location. Battery life is also an issue, as the transmitter can use a good deal of power. b) Memory logging & post-analysis. In this case, the GPS receiver system will feature an onboard memory module, usually non-volatile EEPROM, with a capacity matching the required length of time that the GPS will be recording positions. The main advantages here are reduced power consumption, no need for a 'noisy' transmitter, less installation & cabling work, better tracking resolution depending on the logging rate and time between log downloads. The disadvantages are all that could be obtained in a real-time tracking system and cannot be used in this configuration, plus the need to physically access the vehicle each time the log needs to be downloaded for analysis. CONCLUSION: Either way of getting the information from the vehicle to your tracking / monitoring software has it's advantages and disadvantages, which can make the system useless in certain scenarios. There are mixed systems that log the GPS data to a memory, which can then be periodically downloaded via wireless modem, thus avoiding physical contact with the vehicle. So where does all this bring us? Basically, to what Steve said - covert GPS tracking systems simply don't work, or are too impractical to use in a real environment. I sell GPS tracking systems for a living, which work with all possible configurations, but each time I've had a spy shop contact me to see if I could provide 'covert' systems, I just politely showed them the door. All the best, Mike ---- Original Message ----- From: "Greg H. Walker, Attorney At Law" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 3:11 PM Subject: [TSCM-L] Re: GPS wristwatch > Matt Paulsen wrote: > > > > While I agree that the effectiveness of the tool may not live up to expectations and does open up a nice avenue of litigation which will be good news for many a law firm in the US, there's enough research that shows that deterrent efforts towards increasing security significantly reduces the probability of an incident. This device is only that, a deterrent, nothing more, nothing less. The level of effectiveness of the deterrence in this case has yet to be proven. > 5981 From: Ed Naylor Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 11:36am Subject: MORE INFO re ALLEGED GPS TRACKERS Wristwatches are 'LoJack for kids' Richard Winn of Pinegrove, Pa., doesn't think of himself as paranoid, but with so many abductions in the news lately, he wants to protect his daughters, ages 6 and 9. So he bought them special wristwatches that will track their locations 24 hours a day. "You hope like heck you're not over-paranoid and you're not too fearful of your child being dragged away," Winn says. "But you know the opportunity exists." http://www.usatoday.com/tech/techreviews/products/2002-08-12-gps-device_x.htm *********************************************************** 5982 From: Steve Uhrig Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 0:57pm Subject: Re: GPS wristwatch On 14 Aug 2002 at 18:20, Michael Puchol wrote: > 1. GPS receivers, and more precisely the antenna they use, need a > clear view of the sky. Any obstruction will cause degradation of the > received signal, so for example, a GPS receiver will NOT work indoors, > in a garage, tunnel, under some gas station's roofs, etc. This also > means that the antenna that the receiver uses MUST be placed in a > position where the sky is most visible, as any obstruction caused by > the vehicle's body will cause signal degradation. Absolutely correct. A human body, too, blocks 85% of the signal if it is in the path. > 2. GPS receivers use power, and lots of it - an average OEM > consumer-grade receiver (which is what you'll get in 99% of tracking > systems) draws between 150 and 180mA when in use. > This can be reduced with special 'sleep' modes, which turn off the > receiver for a period of time, and start it occasionally to refresh > the receiver's almanac and clock. In any case, the average consumption > is high, making a self-battery powered system not viable but for short > periods of time. Drawing power from the car's battery is a risk, as it > can deplete it quite fast depending on it's condition, making the > target suspicious. > CONCLUSION: it's not practical to use self-powered devices, as they > need rather large and bulky batteries, or the device needs to be > powered from the vehicle's own battery, thus increasing detection > risks. Increasing detection risks is a major factor. Many if not most recent model automotive electrical systems are monitored by a computer, which knows how much current should be drawn in a particular branch circuit, and shuts it down if the current exceeds that amount. So you need to know the particular target vehicle, and usually need access to the interior, and have the vehicle in an enclosed facility for an hour if you're good and several hours if you're not. How many PIs are going to purchase the electrical wiring diagram for the target vehicle, much less be able to read and interpret it. I know I can't on the modern cars, and I'm not under a time constraint to install anything. And where are you if you blow up something on the target car, and it's disabled sitting in the shop where you're hiding the thing trying to install the tracker? It's happened to law enforcement. We have a fit on some modern cars trying to make a legitimate power tap for a simple two way radio. You can't even go right to the battery anymore on many vehicles, or the thing will sense current drain out of spec and flag the driver. A good design would draw a tiny amount of power from the target vehicle's electrical system, and store that in an onboard supercapacitor or secondary battery and squirt it out in pulses as needed. Integrating a tiny amount of power drain over a long period of time would be much less traumatic on the target vehicle than drawing a relatively large amount of power in realtime as needed. Watch this concept be implemented, or claimed to be, in some toy tracker now that I've brainstormed the idea in a public forum. But, much more importantly --- In the U.S., a federal court determined over a year ago that connecting to the target vehicle's electrical system for power was, in all cases, a 4th Amendment violation. That is illegal to do anywhere. Any evidence gathered illegally like this would be impeached, and there would be a likelihood of the installer coming under the federal eyeball, with their blank check and rubber stamp juries. You can be sure a well paid defense attorney would Shepherdize the cases and find the federal case(s) and there goes your evidence. I have not heard of any prosecutions yet, but it's only a matter of the next time a tracker is used and the case goes to court with a motivated and financed defense attorney that it will come out. In addition to your evidence being no good, you're then potentially a target for prosecution yourself. Since you were operating illegally, your insurance will be no good. Law enforcement is aware of this, and they rarely use anything attached to the target vehicle's power without a court order, regardless of whether one is needed or not for the basic vehicle tracking. Remember, no one is going to step forward and take a bullet for you, either. Disclaimers from the client are worthless. What are you going to do, put a lien on their house to cover your legal bills? Current high end GPS trackers use large external battery packs and primary lithium batteries for max independent battery life. > So where does all this bring us? Basically, to what Steve said - covert > GPS tracking systems simply don't work, or are too impractical to use > in a real environment. I sell GPS tracking systems for a living, which > work with all possible configurations, but each time I've had a spy > shop contact me to see if I could provide 'covert' systems, I just > politely showed them the door. When a man who sells a product tells you not to buy it, he's probably got a valid reason. Steve ******************************************************************* Steve Uhrig, SWS Security, Maryland (USA) Mfrs of electronic surveillance equip mailto:Steve@s... website http://www.swssec.com tel +1+410-879-4035, fax +1+410-836-1190 "In God we trust, all others we monitor" ******************************************************************* 5983 From: Steve Uhrig Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 1:14pm Subject: Re: MORE INFO re ALLEGED GPS TRACKERS On 14 Aug 2002 at 9:36, Ed Naylor wrote: > Wristwatches are 'LoJack for kids' Richard Winn of Pinegrove, Pa., > doesn't think of himself as paranoid, but with so many abductions in the > news lately, he wants to protect his daughters, ages 6 and 9. So he > bought them special wristwatches that will track their locations 24 > hours a day. Key words in the article: > 'should arrive in early September.' The photo is one from a press release, of a nonfunctioning piece of vaporware. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for September. Here's another one who paid in advance, doesn't have it, and probably has paid for distributorship rights and hence submitted the article as part of the PR effort to attract other victims. Read the article, and you'll see plenty of promises of anticipated delivery. The claim Digital Angel has shipped 200 systems I do not believe, at least not in the configuration the article leads you to infer. Steve ******************************************************************* Steve Uhrig, SWS Security, Maryland (USA) Mfrs of electronic surveillance equip mailto:Steve@s... website http://www.swssec.com tel +1+410-879-4035, fax +1+410-836-1190 "In God we trust, all others we monitor" ******************************************************************* 5984 From: iDEN-i100 Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 1:47pm Subject: Re: Re: MORE INFO re ALLEGED GPS TRACKERS They did a demo at CTIA this year. It worked. They also had an FCC Lab certify its operation Steve Uhrig wrote: > > The photo is one from a press release, of a nonfunctioning piece of > vaporware. > > I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for September. > > Steve > > ******************************************************************* > Steve Uhrig, SWS Security, Maryland (USA) > Mfrs of electronic surveillance equip > mailto:Steve@s... website http://www.swssec.com > tel +1+410-879-4035, fax +1+410-836-1190 > "In God we trust, all others we monitor" > ******************************************************************* > > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > =================================================== TSKS > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- "NEXTEL1 IT'S NOT JUST NEXTEL" Subscribe to Nextel1: http://www.groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/NEXTEL1 "NEXTEL2 FOR iDEN SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS" Subscribe to Nextel2: http://www.groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/NEXTEL2 "WIRELESS FORUM HOMELAND SECURITY GROUP" The Complete Resource for Wireless Homeland Security. Subscribe to WFHSG: http://www.groups.yahoo.com/subscribe/WFHSG 5985 From: James M. Atkinson Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 2:03pm Subject: Re: Re: MORE INFO re ALLEGED GPS TRACKERS At 2:47 PM -0400 8/14/02, iDEN-i100 wrote: >They did a demo at CTIA this year. It worked. They also had an FCC >Lab certify its >operation > >Steve Uhrig wrote: > >> >> The photo is one from a press release, of a nonfunctioning piece of >> vaporware. >> >> I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for September. >> > > Steve Negative, the FCC did no such thing... FCC received an "Emissions Report" from a test firm who ran an emission level check, and certified that the EMI levels where below a certain level. The FCC does the same thing with coffee pots, but those are also worthless as tracking devices. -jma -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The First, The Largest, The Most Popular, and The Most Complete TSCM, Bug Sweep, Spy Hunting, and Counterintelligence Site on the Internet. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- James M. Atkinson Ph: (978) 381-9111 Granite Island GroupFax: 127 Eastern Avenue #291http://www.tscm.com/ Gloucester, MA 01931-8008mailto:jmatk@tscm.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat. - Sun Tzu -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5986 From: ed Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 2:08pm Subject: leaked info on PCS-based GPS tracking? this past saturday i had an interesting phone conversation with a Sprint PCS 3G specialist who told me, among other things, that Sprint PCS will be offering handset location services to consumers (it already offers a version of this to law-enforcement customers without a warrant.) the example this Sprint PCS 3G cited involved my giving a Sprint PCS handset equipped with GPS to "a 16 year old", who i would then be able to determine the location of by looking at a map displayed on my handset. i asked her if the other handset would have to initiate a call to accomplish this, and she said no--that as long as the handset was turned on and could see their network, that its physical location could be determined. the Sprint PCS 3G specialist seemed to be reading this from some document. when i asked her which handsets supported this service, she described two new 3G models w/GPS. at that point i got another call and couldn't continue the conversation, but i called back today to get more information. after speaking with several clueless drones, i reached a 3G supervisor who worriedly disavowed the existence of such a service. apparently i'd reached someone with preliminary info about services that have not been officially announced yet. in any case, Sprint PCS is poised to be the first wireless carrier to offer location-based consumer services, so they might be worth keeping an eye on. a work-around for GPS's line-of-sight limitations would be a PCS carrier offering a handset location service that supplements GPS data with (less accurate) handset location data from their switches. a GPS jammer or spoofer wouldn't affect this. Sprint PCS' 3G consumer info department can be reached at (866)588-9906. -ed 5987 From: Kevin D. Murray Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 4:29pm Subject: Re: leaked info on PCS-based GPS tracking? October 1, 2001 Sprint PCS debuts GPS-equipped wireless phone for 911 calls http://www.computerworld.com/mobiletopics/mobile/story/0,10801,64380,00.html > this past saturday i had an interesting phone conversation with a Sprint > PCS 3G specialist who told me, among other things, that Sprint PCS will be > offering handset location services to consumers (it already offers a > version of this to law-enforcement customers without a warrant.) > > the example this Sprint PCS 3G cited involved my giving a Sprint PCS > handset equipped with GPS to "a 16 year old", who i would then be able to > determine the location of by looking at a map displayed on my handset. i > asked her if the other handset would have to initiate a call to accomplish > this, and she said no--that as long as the handset was turned on and could > see their network, that its physical location could be determined. > > the Sprint PCS 3G specialist seemed to be reading this from some > document. when i asked her which handsets supported this service, she > described two new 3G models w/GPS. at that point i got another call and > couldn't continue the conversation, but i called back today to get more > information. > > after speaking with several clueless drones, i reached a 3G supervisor who > worriedly disavowed the existence of such a service. apparently i'd > reached someone with preliminary info about services that have not been > officially announced yet. in any case, Sprint PCS is poised to be the > first wireless carrier to offer location-based consumer services, so they > might be worth keeping an eye on. > > a work-around for GPS's line-of-sight limitations would be a PCS carrier > offering a handset location service that supplements GPS data with (less > accurate) handset location data from their switches. a GPS jammer or > spoofer wouldn't affect this. Sprint PCS' 3G consumer info department can > be reached at (866)588-9906. > > -ed > > > > > ======================================================== > TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List > "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" > > To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: > http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L > > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, > the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. > It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. > =================================================== TSKS > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Kevin D. Murray - CPP, CFE, BCFE Murray Associates Eavesdropping Detection and Counterespionage Consultants to Business & Government http://www.spybusters.com 5988 From: Michael Puchol Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 5:44pm Subject: Re: leaked info on PCS-based GPS tracking? Hi ed, We've had this sort of service running here for about 5 months now, over the existing GSM networks. It's rather crude in it's current implementation, where it only gives you an estimated position based on the cell where the phone is registered. The telco markets it as LBS (location based services). They can tell you (roughly) which are the nearest services to you (cinemas, restaurants, etc.) by calling a number and following the voice menu - the information you request is sent in an SMS. This is already available as a semi-public service in the handset location format, where the telco offers the location data to a third party via a map server - of course with permission of the phone owner. This system eliminates the need for GPS built into the phone, or attached to it otherwise, and while in rural areas you can end up with a large error (rural cells have an approximate radius of 13 miles), in urban areas the location can be within 100 meters or so, when the handset is using microcells. I still don't see a practical use for this in the environment I operate, but more for extremely low-cost tracking systems with very basic features, personal tracking, etc. This opens a more realistic approach to personal tracking, where you could fit an OEM GSM board (Siemens has a board, which we currently use in our projects, that measures 55x36x7 mm) inside clothing, toghether with batteries that could last a relatively long time - this would enable you to be tracked by the sole use of the GSM network. In any case, as soon as you are stripped of your clothes, which has been the case in most of ETA's kidnappings here, any tracking device is worthless - read Steve's post on this subject. Cheers, Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "ed" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 9:08 PM Subject: [TSCM-L] leaked info on PCS-based GPS tracking? > this past saturday i had an interesting phone conversation with a Sprint > PCS 3G specialist who told me, among other things, that Sprint PCS will be > offering handset location services to consumers (it already offers a > version of this to law-enforcement customers without a warrant.) > 5989 From: R. Snyder Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 5:25pm Subject: GLONASS indoors? As Steve Uhrig noted: "Better is the newer, not consumer priced, satellite locating engines which combine the U.S. GPS and the Russian Glonass (GLObal NAvagational Satellite System) receivers into one device, acquire signals from both, average them and use that. The two systems are vaguely similar in function, but different enough so the vulnerabilities of one do not affect the other. Many professional and even some military applications use a combination of GPS and Glonass. This can be transparent to the user, as both receivers and their associated processing are integrated into one chip. The user sees coordinates, and that's all he cares about, not how they were derived." Even indoors, I've seen what appear to be some pretty strong GLONASS signals. Although I realize that GPS+GLONASS receivers are, quite literally, the best of both worlds, do GLONASS receivers perform demonstrably better indoors (or in other attenuated/reflected/partially shielded environments) than GPS receivers? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com 5990 From: Steve Uhrig Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 7:45pm Subject: Re: GPS wristwatch On 13 Aug 2002 at 21:36, iDEN-i100 wrote: > Here is the user manual and pictures- What you are seeing are conceptural drawings and mockups. This is not uncommon. I notice the wording always is, 'the product WILL do X and WILL do Y', never the product DOES do X or Y. Those are giveaways that the thing is conceptual only. CCS and other companies publish all sorts of fancy catalogs, spec sheets and photos of products which do not exist. That's standard. If you haven't seen things like these, I would be surprised. Re demos in your other message, I have seen CCS, LEA in their old days and other companies conduct demos, in my presence as a consultant to a foreign government, and with the government types there, which absolutely blew me away. They were performing the impossible. Took a second demo for me to figure out how they pulled off the scam, and the scam in itself was technically advanced and clever. If people are naïve, or want to believe, you can scam them easily. Steve ******************************************************************* Steve Uhrig, SWS Security, Maryland (USA) Mfrs of electronic surveillance equip mailto:Steve@s... website http://www.swssec.com tel +1+410-879-4035, fax +1+410-836-1190 "In God we trust, all others we monitor" ******************************************************************* 5991 From: iDEN-i100 Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 8:08pm Subject: Re: Re: GPS wristwatch So you just believe this product in nonexistent and/or does not work? Steve Uhrig wrote: > On 13 Aug 2002 at 21:36, iDEN-i100 wrote: > > > Here is the user manual and pictures- > > What you are seeing are conceptural drawings and mockups. > > This is not uncommon. > > I notice the wording always is, 'the product WILL do X and WILL do > Y', never the product DOES do X or Y. Those are giveaways that the > thing is conceptual only. 5992 From: Steve Uhrig Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 9:49am Subject: Re: GPS wristwatch On 14 Aug 2002 at 21:08, iDEN-i100 wrote: > So you just believe this product in nonexistent and/or does not work? The first which nullifies the second. I know you've been around, Marcel. I see you on all the lists. Most of them I never post to. I've been around this industry 30 years, all over the world. The majority of surveillance and intelligence gear advertised by spy shops literally does not exist, or the claimed specs are so grossly exaggerated as to convert a real item into vaporware. Have you ever seen a CCS catalog? Virtually NOTHING in there exists, yet governments pay them millions for the things and get ripped off. If you've never seen a CCS catalog or visited a CCS store, get one or do so. Ask for a written price sheet and watch the fancy footwork. If you visit a store, play the game and get invited into the secret back room. Play dumb technically, play rich, play paranoid, play gullible, play shady and play greedy. They sell things which anyone with any technical knowledge readily will know is impossible. Yet they have elaborate glossy color catalogs and spec sheets in several languages, expensive showrooms, slick looking phony demo pieces, and can do demos which are so cleverly faked you're hard pressed to figure out how they've pulled off the impossible before your very eyes. Some day I will describe some of them. They have no price sheets. Prices are determined by what you can afford to pay. Some people pay $2500. Some pay $25000. Some pay $250,000, for the identical item. The very best they do is repackage, and at that they do a very nice job. But repackaging a digital voltmeter and a tape recorder, adding some blinking lights and knobs and chrome, a slick brochure and salesman hyperbole doesn't make a $10,000 piece of telephone countersurveillance equipment to you or me, but it will to a drug dealer. If you think I'm exaggerating in the slightest, ask around. They have two websites. One is a company called G-Com Technologies or something similar. The other you can find easily through Google. Look at the psychology, and the phony products, and the phony dealerships and distributorships they sell. You've seen the Nigerian Scam letters. Hundreds of thousands of those go out every day, and have for years. You'd think no one would be stupid enough to fall for them, but if they weren't working they wouldn't be sending them. Secret Service gets several hundred complaints EACH DAY from people who have been victimized, usually over a period of 6-12 months. You ask who could be so stupid? And all the above is a lot more outrageous than these nonexistent GPS personal trackers. So a lot more people will fall for the tracker scam. I've personally spoken to probably a dozen people who have advanced money on these things with promises of imminent delivery, and all they got is excuses. I've repeatedly made written offers to the companies pushing these things to travel to witness a demo at my expense, which I will control, and if the thing is real I will publicly and humbly apologize and be an enthusiastic supporter. If they don't work, I'll tear them apart in several major magazines for which I am a contributor. They spend millions on PR, but none of the three companies I've contacted repeatedly have bothered to answer or even acknowledge my letters, phone calls or emails. Make your own decision. I know the state of the art, the vulnerability of potential users, and the guile of the vendors, and I have made up my own mind, without a single credible piece of evidence to the contrary. Steve ******************************************************************* Steve Uhrig, SWS Security, Maryland (USA) Mfrs of electronic surveillance equip mailto:Steve@s... website http://www.swssec.com tel +1+410-879-4035, fax +1+410-836-1190 "In God we trust, all others we monitor" ******************************************************************* 5993 From: Robert Dyk Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 10:42am Subject: RE: Re: GPS wristwatch Wow, This GPS wristwatch business has consumed a tremendous amount of space on this list. Why is it so hard to do as Steve suggests and wait and see. A plan which involves no risk at all... No doubt at some point in the future some sort of locator like this will be possible. At this point however, I have enough trouble getting real time covert in vehicle GPS + cell trackers to work reliably. Trying to do that job in a wristwatch and sell it as life safety device defies reason. In the security hardware business what we promote above all else is reliability. (I huff and puff every time somebody shows me some new Bill Gates OS driven piece of gear) Likewise wireless tracking and telemetry. If my son or daughter were kidnapped (why is he out of my control in the first place) would I rely on GPS + wireless + network provider + all in a wristwatch, to save the day ? Not bloody likely. Furthermore, as a vendor, could I sleep easily at night waiting for the first telephone call from the rich customer whose child is missing and they don't seem to be able to pick up his signal? If you're afraid your child might get lost at the county fair, go buy the new Garmin FRS +GPS locator radio. It's fun to play with, works like a charm and only costs $ 299.00. Plus there are lots of them out there with no problems. Once you've done that, listen to Steve, the voice of reason. Robert Dyk dyk@c... Worldwide Security Ltd. Mississauga, Ontario Canada This e-mail is confidential and may contain privileged information. If you are not the addressee it may be unlawful for you to read, copy, distribute, disclose or otherwise use the information in this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately. 5994 From: Guy Urbina Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 7:54pm Subject: Re: Re: GPS wristwatch I agree with Michael and Steve on a lot of the technical caveats that relegate GPS surveillance trackers as impractical at the present time. A lot of that has to do with traditional GPS receivers. Sadly, the current GPS tracking market is bloated with shucksters, spygear fanatics and outright liars. Digital Angel's claims are disturbingly laughable. However, I take a less pessimistic view as the technology keeps improving in geometric fashion, and I do not want to wholly discard it's use as a surveillance tool unwisely. I design and fabricate many wireless GPS proof of concept demonstrators, some for AVL and some for other applications. I have improved my designs over the years and have noticed the size and power shrinking significantly on the hardware. There are new chipsets with thousands of correlators on them which can provide fixes in conditions with as much as 25db signal attenuation. On the firmware side, new DSP algorithms have decreased the time for a position fix, as well as clever unorthodox ways of processing the pseudoranges. The introduction of WAAS (Wide Area Augmentation System) has improved location resolution to ~15meters. I would like to share with the group some interesting developments in obtuse, unorthodox and non-traditional GPS receiver technologies with advantages and tongue in cheek disadvantages: 1.) Dead Reckoning Augmentation - This is an augmentation aid for integration into a GPS tracking system. Basically, it supplements your navigation during GPS signal outages. Provides the users lat/long relative to an initialization point. Error is 2% to 5% of distance traveled. Disadvantage: I'm afraid the error rises exponentially the longer the GPS signal is lost. www.pointresearch.com 2.) Hybrid server-aided distributed GPS location - This is the architecture that SnapTrack uses. Briefly, It uses servers to process the GPS fix for the handset. The handset takes a snapshot of the SV's above it, passes that info to the server. The server compares that with a network of reference servers (servers that have active GPS receivers on them, coverage of the CONUS) and the location server sends aiding data back to the handset. (doing the calcs for them) Lock on can be achieved with less than 3 SV's due to the server aiding method. The server is able to mitigate multipath and reflected signal effects. Other advantages are fast position fix, low power and high sensitivity which allow position fixes in most buildings, inside cars and in urban canyons where traditional GPS is unreliable and unusable. SnapTrack is wholly owned by Qualcomm and I believe they have incorporated SnapTrack's method in the GPSone chipset for their handsets. If the network is lost............well..........you're lost. see: www.snaptrack.com 3.) Massive correlator approach - a server aided method augmented by massive hardware correlators. 16000 correlators allow acquisition with satellites with signals below -158dbm, or C/No 15db -Hz) 250 msec fix times. These guys really do work indoors! Very tiny chipset form factor. GPS Chipsets Disadvantage: Still can't beat a silver mylar Fritos bag over the GPS antenna.....:) see: www.globallocate.com 4.) Snap-shot post processing approach -(similar to snaptrack) a method whereby the GPS sensor takes a snapshot of the raw GPS data and saves it for post processing later. (datalogger) This data can be retrieved via RS232 and the GPS signal processing can be performed on a laptop. The excellent benefits being: This sensor only needs to be powered up for 60 msec to acquire enough data for a position fix. It is tiny, 7 x 3 cm and estimated battery life is 4 years @ 1 position fix per hour. Disadvantage: lose the signal processing software you're out of luck. also see Fritos bag. website: www.navsys.com/products/tracktag.htm 5.) Balanced quadrifilar-helix GPS antennas - These antennas are balanced so that they require no ground plane. They do not detune if they are close to a human body. They have a broad beam width so that you can point the antenna other than straight up. (175 degrees) It generates a LHCP pattern underneath itself so that it can pick up bounced signals. I bought 2 of these, tested them and found them superior for applications requiring body worn GPS units. NOTE: if you don't have a bodyworn application, they perform similarly to the standard flat patch. Disadvantage: easy to break the ceramic, also see Fritos bag. website: www.sarantel.com My goal is to improve on the technology of the current junk that is out there and make a well engineered GPS surveillance application. Best Regards to all...... -Guy 5995 From: k9electron Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 4:50am Subject: Alpha 5 Mist tracking system Hi, Ive been reading the post on GPS tracking and thought I would introduce a non GPS/GSM or even battery/mains powered tracking system with a range of 600Km. The crucial, most important feature is that the system is totally passive. There is absolutely no R.F. present. This has been tested with the best equipment on the market. Furthermore the tracking device or bug as we call it does not operate by battery power. The size of the bug is extremely small and they are made in different shapes, the largest one is like a vitamin capsule. The smallest one is to be implanted inside a tooth of the object. The operational range of the tracking system is guaranteed to 6000 kilometres. Looking at the technologies on the market today, the signal from the ALPHA FIVE MIST) can not be jammed in any way The absolutely main factor here is that the bug is 100% passive. The suspect will never know that there is anything installed or placed. More strategically on covert operations because no equipment will give any indication that an operation is going on. We even can supply the bugs in metal or plastic versions. Metal detectors, or non-linear junction detectors will of course not detect the latter. The truly "invisible" bug is here. Nothing else on the market today has these specifications. more info at http://www.spy-equipment.co.uk/Tracking/tracking.html Glenn 5996 From: ed Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 10:58am Subject: Maryland to install tracking devices in drunk drivers' vehicles >Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 11:18:52 -0400 >To: politech@p... >From: Declan McCullagh >Subject: FC: Maryland implants tracking devices in cars of drunk drivers > >Section 1404 of the "Transportation Equity Act for the 21st Century" hands >hundreds of millions of dollars to states that provide "safety incentives >to prevent operation of motor vehicles by intoxicated persons." See: >http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c105:H.R.2400.ENR: >http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/tea21/ >Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 >To: declan@w... >From: [name deleted per request --DBM] >Subject: [confidential]Feel the fear. > >http://www.sunspot.net/news/custom/guns/bal-md.ignition14aug14.story?coll=bal%2Dlocal%2Dheadlines > > >"Once a month, the drivers must take their cars to one of 26 service >centers in the state, where the travel information recorded by the >interlocks is transferred to a computer and turned over to the MVA. > >Valenzia said the travel information is checked to see if the driver has >changed his driving habits or might be using another car. > >"We know how far they have to travel to get to work and what their normal >driving routine is," she said. > >--------------------- >Method acting: Read that quote aloud earnestly with meaning, pretending >you are a government employee. > >Feel the fear. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >POLITECH -- Declan McCullagh's politics and technology mailing list >You may redistribute this message freely if you include this notice. >To subscribe to Politech: http://www.politechbot.com/info/subscribe.html >This message is archived at http://www.politechbot.com/ >Declan McCullagh's photographs are at http://www.mccullagh.org/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Like Politech? Make a donation here: http://www.politechbot.com/donate/ >Recent CNET News.com articles: http://news.search.com/search?q=declan >CNET Radio 9:40 am ET weekdays: http://cnet.com/broadband/0-7227152.html >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > 5997 From: Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 8:17am Subject: Re: Alpha 5 Mist tracking system In a message dated 8/15/02 9:48:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, k9sales@n... writes: << Nothing else on the market today has these specifications. >> I believe this statement. 5998 From: Robert Dyk Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 0:23pm Subject: RE: Alpha 5 Mist tracking system Translated to the German, "MIST" means manure. No Idea how ALPHA FIVE Translates... Robert Dyk dyk@c... Worldwide Security Ltd. Mississauga, Ontario Canada > The crucial, most important feature is that the system is totally > passive. > > There is absolutely no R.F. present. This has been tested with the > best equipment on the market. Furthermore the tracking device or bug > as we call it does not operate by battery power. The size of the bug > is extremely small and they are made in different shapes, the > largest one is like a vitamin capsule. The smallest one is to be > implanted inside a tooth of the object. > > The operational range of the tracking system is guaranteed to 6000 > kilometres. > > Looking at the technologies on the market today, the signal from the > ALPHA FIVE MIST) can not be jammed in any way > > The absolutely main factor here is that the bug is 100% passive. The > suspect will never know that there is anything installed or placed. > More strategically on covert operations because no equipment will > give any indication that an operation is going on. We even can > supply the bugs in metal or plastic versions. Metal detectors, or > non-linear junction detectors will of course not detect the latter. > The truly "invisible" bug is here. > > Nothing else on the market today has these specifications. > This e-mail is confidential and may contain privileged information. If you are not the addressee it may be unlawful for you to read, copy, distribute, disclose or otherwise use the information in this e-mail. If you are not the intended recipient please notify us immediately. > 5999 From: Matt Paulsen Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 0:22pm Subject: RE: Re: GPS wristwatch Got folg.. where's horse.... Lets look at established firms with products on the market for a moment that sell locally and abroad - Qualcomm, Motorola, Sprint, etc. Arguably they could be considers hucksters given their stock rating and the current inquisition going on in Washington.... but their selling it and companies like Motorola don't generally bank on scams. This is a pdf on e911 from 99 that Motorola put out that shows assisted gps and other things. http://ftp.fcc.gov/realaudio/e911mot.pdf SnapTrack, part of Qualcomm, has over 1 million subscribers for GPS assisted services using CDMA which has been out since last year with 15 shipping devices from manufacturers to choose from. If SnapTrack can tie back a 911 call center to a location analysis system using a cell phone for 50-150 meter resolution, I don't see why a wristwatch or a pager like device could do which is exactly what Qualcomm says can be done. http://www.snaptrack.com Reference from their how it works section: SnapTrack's Personal Location Technology™ is based upon its thin-client Wireless Assisted GPS™ system and may be incorporated into cellular phones, pagers, personal digital assistants, and other wireless devices. In fact, the SnapTrack system either runs as software on the handset's own digital signal processing (DSP) chip or as a tightly integrated enhanced GPS capability at the baseband chip level. -----Original Message----- From: Guy Urbina [mailto:urbina1@l...] Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:55 PM To: TSCM-L@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [TSCM-L] Re: GPS wristwatch I agree with Michael and Steve on a lot of the technical caveats that relegate GPS surveillance trackers as impractical at the present time. A lot of that has to do with traditional GPS receivers. Sadly, the current GPS tracking market is bloated with shucksters, spygear fanatics and outright liars. Digital Angel's claims are disturbingly laughable. However, I take a less pessimistic view as the technology keeps improving in geometric fashion, and I do not want to wholly discard it's use as a surveillance tool unwisely. I design and fabricate many wireless GPS proof of concept demonstrators, some for AVL and some for other applications. I have improved my designs over the years and have noticed the size and power shrinking significantly on the hardware. There are new chipsets with thousands of correlators on them which can provide fixes in conditions with as much as 25db signal attenuation. On the firmware side, new DSP algorithms have decreased the time for a position fix, as well as clever unorthodox ways of processing the pseudoranges. The introduction of WAAS (Wide Area Augmentation System) has improved location resolution to ~15meters. I would like to share with the group some interesting developments in obtuse, unorthodox and non-traditional GPS receiver technologies with advantages and tongue in cheek disadvantages: 1.) Dead Reckoning Augmentation - This is an augmentation aid for integration into a GPS tracking system. Basically, it supplements your navigation during GPS signal outages. Provides the users lat/long relative to an initialization point. Error is 2% to 5% of distance traveled. Disadvantage: I'm afraid the error rises exponentially the longer the GPS signal is lost. www.pointresearch.com 2.) Hybrid server-aided distributed GPS location - This is the architecture that SnapTrack uses. Briefly, It uses servers to process the GPS fix for the handset. The handset takes a snapshot of the SV's above it, passes that info to the server. The server compares that with a network of reference servers (servers that have active GPS receivers on them, coverage of the CONUS) and the location server sends aiding data back to the handset. (doing the calcs for them) Lock on can be achieved with less than 3 SV's due to the server aiding method. The server is able to mitigate multipath and reflected signal effects. Other advantages are fast position fix, low power and high sensitivity which allow position fixes in most buildings, inside cars and in urban canyons where traditional GPS is unreliable and unusable. SnapTrack is wholly owned by Qualcomm and I believe they have incorporated SnapTrack's method in the GPSone chipset for their handsets. If the network is lost............well..........you're lost. see: www.snaptrack.com 3.) Massive correlator approach - a server aided method augmented by massive hardware correlators. 16000 correlators allow acquisition with satellites with signals below -158dbm, or C/No 15db -Hz) 250 msec fix times. These guys really do work indoors! Very tiny chipset form factor. GPS Chipsets Disadvantage: Still can't beat a silver mylar Fritos bag over the GPS antenna.....:) see: www.globallocate.com 4.) Snap-shot post processing approach -(similar to snaptrack) a method whereby the GPS sensor takes a snapshot of the raw GPS data and saves it for post processing later. (datalogger) This data can be retrieved via RS232 and the GPS signal processing can be performed on a laptop. The excellent benefits being: This sensor only needs to be powered up for 60 msec to acquire enough data for a position fix. It is tiny, 7 x 3 cm and estimated battery life is 4 years @ 1 position fix per hour. Disadvantage: lose the signal processing software you're out of luck. also see Fritos bag. website: www.navsys.com/products/tracktag.htm 5.) Balanced quadrifilar-helix GPS antennas - These antennas are balanced so that they require no ground plane. They do not detune if they are close to a human body. They have a broad beam width so that you can point the antenna other than straight up. (175 degrees) It generates a LHCP pattern underneath itself so that it can pick up bounced signals. I bought 2 of these, tested them and found them superior for applications requiring body worn GPS units. NOTE: if you don't have a bodyworn application, they perform similarly to the standard flat patch. Disadvantage: easy to break the ceramic, also see Fritos bag. website: www.sarantel.com My goal is to improve on the technology of the current junk that is out there and make a well engineered GPS surveillance application. Best Regards to all...... -Guy ======================================================== TSCM-L Technical Security Mailing List "In a multitude of counselors there is strength" To subscribe to the TSCM-L mailing list visit: http://www.yahoogroups.com/community/TSCM-L It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Star Bucks that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shaking, the shaking is a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. =================================================== TSKS Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 6000 From: Matt Paulsen Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 1:06pm Subject: Study: Lights better crime fighters than cameras Study: Lights better crime fighters than cameras August 14, 2002 Posted: 8:28 PM EDT (0028 GMT) http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/08/14/britain.cameras.crime.ap/index.ht ml LONDON, England (AP) -- Improved street lighting is a more effective crime-fighter than more expensive surveillance cameras, according to government-commissioned research released Wednesday. The British government has made closed-circuit TV cameras a big part of its campaign to cut crime, spending millions of pounds (dollars) to install them in shopping streets, sports stadiums, railway stations and other public places. But a study of the cameras' effect on crime found that while they "had a significant desirable effect on crime," the cameras reduced offenses overall by just 4 percent. The research found that CCTV cameras, as they are known in Britain [MP: Yea, it's a British thing, we American's have no idea what CCTV is, like tea, or bangers and eggs...], had no effect on violent crimes, but a significant effect on auto theft and vandalism. While cameras in urban areas reduced crime by just 2 percent, cameras in parking lots cut car crime by 41 percent. A separate survey of street lighting found that better, brighter lighting cut overall crime by 20 percent. The reports assessed 34 major studies of CCTV and street lighting published in Britain and North America between 1978 and 2000. The Home Office said it had allocated 170 million pounds ($262 million) for CCTV technology across England and Wales between 1999 and 2003, and had put tens of millions more into separate CCTV programs aimed at small shopkeepers and drug-plagued neighborhoods. The civil liberties group Privacy International has estimated there are as many as 1.5 million CCTV cameras in Britain. The Home Office said it could not say how much was spent in Britain on street lighting, which is funded by local authorities rather than the central government. The government said the studies supported its strategy of using a "package" of crime-prevention measures. "The pooled findings of research from the last 25 years consistently show that a common sense approach bears the best results -- using a variety of targeted crime reduction methods in an area can have a real impact on crime, and improves people's sense of safety," said Home Office minister John Denham. He said the government would "continue to evaluate how we can make best use of CCTV and street lighting, whether it's to reduce fear of crime for the public or to provide valuable evidence for the police." 6001 From: iDEN-i100 Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 0:57pm Subject: Re: Re: GPS wristwatch I have asked the MSNBC Tech Reporter (whom I know) to obtain a demo unit and take it on a test drive. Lets see what the company says. He is fair and straight forward. Steve Uhrig wrote: > On 14 Aug 2002 at 21:08, iDEN-i100 wrote: > > > So you just believe this product in nonexistent and/or does not work? > > The first which nullifies the second. > > I know you've been around, Marcel. I see you on all the lists. Most > of them I never post to. > > I've been around this industry 30 years, all over the world. > > The majority of surveillance and intelligence gear advertised by spy > shops literally does not exist, or the claimed specs are so grossly > exaggerated as to convert a real item into vaporware. 6002 From: A Grudko Date: Thu Aug 15, 2002 0:20pm Subject: 1) Leaked info? 2) Big security event. - Original Message - From: ed > the example this Sprint PCS 3G cited involved my giving a Sprint PCS > handset equipped with GPS to "a 16 year old", who i would then be able to > determine the location of by looking at a map displayed on my handset. i > asked her if the other handset would have to initiate a call to accomplish > this, and she said no--that as long as the handset was turned on and could > see their network, that its physical location could be determined. We've had this facility here for about 6 months. The original handset supplier was a little known (here) company called 'Benaphone' (sp) which a friend of mine represents here, but there may be others now. Handsets which have been activated to locate each other can do so, but if you don't want me to know where you are you can exclude me to ensure SOME privacy. Location accuracy is limited to the usual commercial GPS bird availability - I usually see 6 'cos I live in the country but between the 10 - 30 storey buildings in Johannesburg I might not see none, so then it won't work. Less likely is moving out of GSM range, but it happens in many of our rural areas. I'd guess there's a second layer service - so that the service provider can locate you any time, just in case you are a suspected terrorist, owe on your taxes or did not vote for the current President :-) As an aside, I'm on a 3 day police SWAT refresher course in the bush as part of the security preparations for the forthcoming 'World Summit On Sustainable Development' in Sandton, Johannesburg - http://www.dfa.gov.za/events/wssd.htm . VIPs, possibly Heads Of State, will be visiting the area I live in. Tuesday there was a 2 hour operation in about a 1.5 km radius of my house involving 2 military (Oryx twin turbine), one badged SA Police (Puma) and 4 presumably UN charter Jet Ranger helicopters. This eMail is not a security breech - there were probably 2000 people watching the operation and many of the VIP visits here are already on public timetables. Those of us who enjoy conspiracy theories will be stimulated to hear that the 2 Oryxs were black, with no markings !!! During the period of the Summit the Sandton Conference Center becomes UN property and is protected by UN security forces, in concert with local police and military. Local organisers have anticipated 40 000 visitors. Local radical groups have promissed even more protestors. Yesterday, I had to move over on the highway for 5 UN blue Toyota Camries plus other vehicles in convoy, light bars strobing red and blue, black windows, diplomatic number plates and 2 coms antennas. I know one was for our local SA Police Service (SAPS), not because I'm a genius, but because the government contractor embosses ELITE - SAPS on the distinctive loading coil, just in case any criminal was not sure that the unmarked car tailing him was cops ! It's gonna be an interesting month. Andy Grudko (British) - D.P.M., Grad I.S, South Africa - PSIRA investigators Reg. No. 8642 Grudko Associates - www.grudko.com , andy@g... . Est. 1981. International business intelligence and investigations To contact us: (+27 12) 244 0255 - 244 0256 (Fax). ICQ : 146498943. Netmeeting : agrudko@h... IPA, SACI, WAD, CALI, SAMLF, UKPIN, AFIO (OS), IWWA, PRETrust When you need it done right - first time